cylinder wall pitting

[drfromnc]

Trying to decide whether I should run this engine as is or not. It's a 59A that I inherited from my dad but the engine has been sitting for many decades. Prior to it being parked it was a rebuilt motor with about 10K miles on it. I have removed heads, intake and oil pan to clean and inspect everything out. All looks good to me except cylinder #8. It has some pitting in the sleeve. I have not removed any of the internal moving parts (pistons, valve train) but everything moves freely. nothing stuck.

At this point, I really don't want to go down the road to rebuild it but do want to button things back up to see how it will run. What can I expect if I try to close it up and run it? will these pits damage the rings or piston?

[alanwoodieman]

oil foul the #8 spark plug, some oil smoke. is it really a sleeved engine? thin wall or replacement?

[RalphM]

I would just run it! I had one stock bore with pits, that was rebored to .080, but it did not take all the pits out of one cylinder. Ran great and ever misfired due to a fouled plug.

[Kurt in NJ]

looks like it has 'tin' sleeves they can be replaced ,come pre honed.
most likely any piston-ring damage IF any has already happened.
Why was the engine "parked" ?did it have a head gasket problem?
I have seen less damage cause problems and seen more damage causing no problems

[deuce_roadster]

If everything else is fine, if it were mine i would have a new sleeve put in there, re hone the whole engine and put a new set of rings in. 10k miles a long time ago with old paraffin oil probably has some wear. Personally, I don't put things back together that look like that.

[petehoovie]

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[sugarmaker]

drfromnc,
Sure it will run. Its not going to get better. May burn some oil? The pits look pretty deep.
Good luck with your family engine project!
Regards,
Chris

[Ronnieroadster]

The big concern is the location of the deep pits. I a ring end gets in one of the deep pits and ends up hanging up for a split second while continually going up and down then you risk the possibility of the ring breaking and possibly the ring land eventually. Since it looks like a tin sleeve a new sleeve would be the best solution. But if your not interested in going down the road to rebuilding its just a gamble how this will turn out.
Ronieroadster

[tubman]

I would think that because it's a sleeve, it would be a "no-brainer". What am I missing?

[bbrocksr]

Those pits are deep, better put a new sleeve in it. Don't waste time and money on it. Fix it right.
Bill

[bbrocksr]

Those pits are deep, Don't waste time and money on it. Fix it right and put a new sleeve in it.
Bill

[Ggmac]

I would run it on a driver . Start looking for a replacement sleeve . They are easy to install , usually! The

[drfromnc]

Thanks for all the reply’s.

Alanwoodieman, yes all cylinders appear to be sleeved. No clue on what kind of sleeve.

Kurt in nj, it was parked to do a restoration is my guess because it was mostly disassembled when dad finally agreed to let me have it. Now too late to ask more questions. He passed last summer.

I have no clue on how to replace sleeves although I know someone who has some to sale. What would a machine charge to do this job? Or is this something I can do at home? FYI,I’ve never done any engine work what so ever before. Lol

[Zeke3]

Check with KiWiUS, he may have the tools necessary to replace a cylinder sleeve. He is in the Charlotte area, which isn't too far from you.

[fordwife]

Once I found a gouge in a cylinder wall about an inch long. I cleaned it, filled it with JB weld and honed it smooth. 3K miles later.its still running smooth with no problems.

[GB SISSON]

When overhauling my 8 hp 1912 stover hit n miss engine, 6" bore, 12" stroke, I found some pretty large pits in the cylinder. I thought about getting it sleeved, but my 82 year old machinest buddy told me that when he was a younger man he raced air cooled vws. He felt the cylinders needed better oiling at his high rpms, so he took a dremel tool and created dimples (pits) in the cylinder walls to hold some oil. He said his engines' lives were extended greatly after this. He then told me that if they were not connected vertically (ok horizontally in a vw) they would create no problems..

[38 coupe]

I see lots of pits in a vertical line, "chain like pitting" and at least one deep pit. Ronnieroadster brought up a very good concern, having a ring snag on a deep pit. Just replace that sleeve, hone all cylinders, and install a new set of rings. If you have never done this before, well now you have a great learning experience available.

[drfromnc]

38 coupe, if I go the route to replace that sleeve I might as well replace the connecting rod bearings and main bearings too? I can see a domino effect at this point because since I am this far in might as well pull valve train to inspect and replace....geez.

[38 coupe]

I would inspect the bearings. If they only have 10k bearings they are probably just fine to reinstall as is. Heck, some barners have the habit of saving old floating rod bearings for use in other engines if they are certain types and look good. As for valve train, again inspect everything and reinstall if everything looks ok. Make sure you label or organize all the parts as they come apart so you can put it all back together in the same place.

The pictured cylinder does not appear to have excessive wear. I suspect you can have a nice running engine for the cost of the sleeve install, ring set, and gasket set (and a couple cans of spray paint if you really want it to look nice). If you really want to ensure a smooth motor you can get the crank balance checked and corrected if out. If everything is worn out do you really want to put that engine in a vehicle and drive it anyway? At a minimum I would pull a couple rod caps and a main cap to inspect some bearings anyway.

[drfromnc]

makes sense. Here are pics of the other 7 cylinders.

[38 coupe]

The vertical lines in #s 2, 4, and 7 don't look ideal. Can you catch your fingernail in them? If not they are cosmetic and a simple ball hone can take care of even that. I can't really tell if you have ring ridge at the top of each cylinder. I have seen mild carbon buildup that looks like what I see in the pictures, and I have seen ring ridge that looks like what I see in the pictures. Ford manuals and Service Bulletins give limits for cylinder wear. If you are within those limits you should be able to do a "short job" with just rings, gaskets, and fix that one cylinder.

[Bored&Stroked]

From just looking at the pictures, it appears you have some pretty good pits and scoring in other cylinders. Also, I can see evidence of corrosion on some of the piston tops - which usually means there was moisture in the cylinders at some point.

Since you have to take it apart anyway, I'd have the machine shop inspect ALL 8 sleeves and potentially replace them all, hone them and put new rings in the engine. Also, there could easily be some rust/pitting on the valves/seats . . . so I'd probably have them touched up as well. Also, when you have rust/debris that scores cylinder walls a lot of times it gets into the oil and scores the bearings.

This is how it usually goes for me . . . every time I think I'm going to get away with a few "band aids", I end up finding more issues. So, I then make the decision to do the job the right way and rebuild the engine. While I don't like to spend the money, I also hate to spend all the time and put the effort in and not have the best result possible.

I'd take it all apart and have everything inspected by a machine shop that knows flatheads.
I'd also be mentally prepared to rebuild the engine. You'll then have a really good running engine that should last the rest of your lifetime. Not trying to spend your money - just trying to be realistic and pragmatic.

Best of luck and welcome to Flatheads - they are fun engines!
B&S

[Mart]

It may just be the camera angle, but do the tops of the liners appear low in the bores? Is this something to be concerned about?

[rotorwrench]

Deep pits allow a blast of extremely hot gas to burn though the pitted area. This will get worse quickly. Its almost as bad as a busted piston ring. It may run but it will burn there for sure and will damage the top ring and piston as well. Fix it now and the problem goes away.

[drfromnc]

Update: decided to have the motor rebuilt. My engine builder took it apart, cleaned it and took to his machine shop to have it magna fluxed . It’s crack free BUT sonic testing revealed cylinders to thin to bore. It can be re-sleeved back to a standard bore.

I also took engine builder a second short block just in case. Turns out this block is also crack free and passed sonic testing. Going with 3 5/16 bore on this one. Can’t believe how extremely lucky I am to have 2 usable blocks..!! I’ve read all stories about folks having to “go through” several blocks to find a good one.

Here is a link to the other block that I am using for the build: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303399

[Bored&Stroked]

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I've done a LOT of sonic testing on these blocks - would love to know the actual numbers that your engine builder acquired in sonic testing. I test each cylinder in 12 places - based on taking measurements on all 4 sides, in 3 locations (up/down) on the bore.

If you can get the info, would love to know the numbers that they are referencing?

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>want to button things back up to see how it will run.>>> I can see a domino effect>>>


Yes. I can see that too, So if it was mine, I'd quickly button things back up to see how it'll run. 8^)