Lucas ZDDP

[BillCNC]

Hey All,

I usually add 16oz of MMO to my T4 15-40w oil when I change my oil. This time instead of the MMO, I added 16oz. of Lucas ZDDP. I was just curious if anyone else has used the Lucas ZDDP and if so, what was your experience with it?

Regards
Bill

[McMimmcs]

Why did you change ?

[Terry, NJ]

MMO is a solvent. Not something I want to add to my oil. It's great for releasing stuck engines, or cleaning carburetors, but not oil. It's not a lubricant . STP's better for that. The only time I'd put MMO in the crankase is before a oil change.
Terry

[chrs1961815]

For what it is worth, the general consensus on zinc or lead additives to model a engines is that it is not needed because of the low valve spring pressure. But older cars that have hydraulic lifters are a different story.

[1931 flamingo]

As stated above. IMO money wasted.
Paul in CT

[rotorwrench]

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MMO is a lot like ATF and acetone except it's not acetone in there. The solvent in MMO is still the best for softening hard carbon deposits that can build up on valve stems and piston rings. It will prevent valves from sticking and add a top end lubricant when used as directed for a fuel additive.

STP is an additive to build higher viscosity to lubricants that are too thin to hold up to the high temperatures of blow by in a tired engine.

If a person runs MMO in the crankcase of an engine that has a lot of sludge build up then a person risks circulating some of that crud through the bearings. If a person runs an engine with full filtration and pressure oiling then it might not hurt a thing but most old engines have to be modified to do that.

ZDDP is an acidic compound that adds a wear resistant coating to wear surfaces of ferrous parts as an extreme pressure additive. Most old Ford engines don't have high enough valve spring pressures to need any extra extreme pressure additives.

[BillCNC]

Terry,

When I bought the 31 Tudor in 2017, it had been sitting for 10 years. I have changed the oil 3 times since then and only driven about 300 miles on it and have noticed a huge difference in the way the motor runs and sounds. MMO themselves state it IS a 5w oil and will only effect the high number of the oil by 4 points. I run T4 15-40w, so adding in a little MMO turns the oil into 15-36w which is acceptable. Now I am stopping the MMO and adding the ZDDP for wear protection. I have absolutely no clue as to the care of condition the motor is in other than it's running far better, considering I have limited knowledge of what was done, or happened prior to my purchase of the car. The wife didn't want to deal with it in any way shape or form other than holding her hand out to collect the cash. I had to do all the DMV stuff with multiple states involved, Vin check with CHP, receipt, ext. The owner (husband) had been dead for years, and she knew nothing other than there were two cars in the garage she was wanting to get rid of, 31 Model A, and a 27 Chevy. I had to buy a fuel bowl and spend about 3 days getting it to run before I made my offer to buy the car.

Taken from MMO's FAQ page:


#2 QUESTION:
When is the best time to add MMO to the Oil?

ANSWER:
We recommend replacing up to 20% of the oil requirements with MMO at the beginning of an oil change. It can also be added anytime to the oil up to 300 miles prior to the next oil change.

* I added 16oz. which = 10%.

#3 QUESTION:
When added to oil will MMO thin the oil?

ANSWER:
MMO is about a 5 wt oil. It will reduce the high end number of a multi-vis oil by 4 wt points. The low end number will stay the same when used as per directions.

Regards
Bill

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

Hey All,

I usually add 16oz of MMO to my T4 15-40w oil when I change my oil. This time instead of the MMO, I added 16oz. of Lucas ZDDP. I was just curious if anyone else has used the Lucas ZDDP and if so, what was your experience with it?

Regards
Bill

If you were happy with MMO I'm not sure why you changed. The Shell T4 15w-40 has more than enough ZDDP in it for a Model A engine, certainly more than the oil your madel A had when it ws new.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Why don’t you just use 15/40 penzoil or the new dello chevron? It already has the zinc in it. I’ve been using it for 20 years over 40,000 miles and the engine looks like new inside.
I don’t understand why, if the zinc is a metal protectant, and wear is reduced, so many people won’t use it because it isn’t necessary for the cam wear factor. Yet they will tout the need for an oil or air filter.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

Why don’t you just use 15/40 penzoil or the new dello chevron? It already has the zinc in it. I’ve been using it for 20 years over 40,000 miles and the engine looks like new inside.
I don’t understand why, if the zinc is a metal protectant, and wear is reduced, so many people won’t use it because it isn’t necessary for the cam wear factor. Yet they will tout the need for an oil or air filter.

Most oils these days have a certain amout of zinc in them altho it has been reduce for the cats on modern cars. I don't see any advantage to adding more zinc to a Model A engine.

I di use Delo 400.

[Merc Cruzer]

I use this, it is only 4 oz., didn't know Lucas made ZDDP. I add one bottle at each oil change.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

I didn't know Lucas made ZDDP.

See post #1.

[rotorwrench]

Most of the late oil lubricants have around 800 ppm but may be somewhat less now. 1200 PPM was common before reduction was needed due to catalytic converters. Anything more than that by volume starts to do more harm than good. The stuff can be corrosive it too high a ratio. I wouldn't use any more than what they currently mix in common motor oils. The stock flathead valve train doesn't need it.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Ruth

See post #1.

Ruth,

I did see that in post 1, but never knew that Lucas made it. Just saying, that was news to me. Learn something new everyday.

[Y-Blockhead]

Maybe we should read the label first. It states several times it is for "Break in" and "Not designed for passenger car use".

[Model A Ron]

If your looking for ZDDP Shell Rotella T6 has it. This is a diesel oil but I use it on all my old cars.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

Terry,

When I bought the 31 Tudor in 2017, it had been sitting for 10 years. I have changed the oil 3 times since then and only driven about 300 miles on it and have noticed a huge difference in the way the motor runs and sounds. MMO themselves state it IS a 5w oil and will only effect the high number of the oil by 4 points. I run T4 15-40w, so adding in a little MMO turns the oil into 15-36w which is acceptable. Now I am stopping the MMO and adding the ZDDP for wear protection. I have absolutely no clue as to the care of condition the motor is in other than it's running far better, considering I have limited knowledge of what was done, or happened prior to my purchase of the car. The wife didn't want to deal with it in any way shape or form other than holding her hand out to collect the cash. I had to do all the DMV stuff with multiple states involved, Vin check with CHP, receipt, ext. The owner (husband) had been dead for years, and she knew nothing other than there were two cars in the garage she was wanting to get rid of, 31 Model A, and a 27 Chevy. I had to buy a fuel bowl and spend about 3 days getting it to run before I made my offer to buy the car.

Taken from MMO's FAQ page:


#2 QUESTION:
When is the best time to add MMO to the Oil?

ANSWER:
We recommend replacing up to 20% of the oil requirements with MMO at the beginning of an oil change. It can also be added anytime to the oil up to 300 miles prior to the next oil change.

* I added 16oz. which = 10%.

#3 QUESTION:
When added to oil will MMO thin the oil?

ANSWER:
MMO is about a 5 wt oil. It will reduce the high end number of a multi-vis oil by 4 wt points. The low end number will stay the same when used as per directions.

Regards
Bill

Bill, One of the best replies I've ever gotten, Sincere Thank you! I have no animus to MMO as some do. It's great stuff ! It's just that I can't get past the solvent aspect of it. It seems to be working for you, however, is there a point where you will stop? Or do you feel comfortable using it indefinitely? I have used both STP and ATF in engines. As was stated,STP seems to be for increasing the viscosity of the oil. Which to my mind is the wrong way to use it. STP seems to be stickier than most lubes. It clings to cylinder walls, cams, valves and other internal parts. This is desirable to prevent moisture from rusting while sitting unused. I learned about this when I was flying and doing simple jobs as a amateur airplane mechanic. Planes sit out on the ramp. exposed to all kinds of weather and moisture penetrates into their engines. This moisture forms on all unprotected surfaces and when the engine is finally started, it scrapes these rust particles off and into the oil which is about the equivalent of throwing a can of valve grinding compound in your crankcase. On an old engine, it is important to start it with the old oil, let it run for a few moments and drain the oil out and flush with Kerosene before you put fresh oil back it. Then change it again after a few miles.
Also, number two STP property that I like. "They" will tell you that STP is not a lubricant. It even says so on the can! it is a heck of a lubricant! Try this, take a good sized screwdriver and hold it with two fingers, pinching the blade. Clean, dry, no problem. Now, put a little 10 30 on it or your fingers, it doesn't matter. You can still hold it. Yeah it's slipprier than it was dry, but you can hold it. Now, clean it off and apply some STP! Surprise! There's no holding it! In my mind, this test says it all. STP is a good lubricant!
Terry

[rotorwrench]

MMO directions are general and apply to all of the many different types of engine out there to a point. It will keep a clean engine clean but it will stir up a pot of sludge on a dirty engine. These engines can get a fair amount of sludge build up in the valve chamber and the oil pan. The sludge can include little bits of hard carbon which feels pretty gritty if a person wipes a bit of it out of the valve chamber. If this stuff gets loosened up to where it can flow with the oil then it can and will go down into the feeds for the mains & cam as well as being picked up by the rods in the dipper tray. The only filter on a stock engine is the oil pump pickup screen and it's not a real fine screen.

A person has to use their best judgement about how things are inside the engine before considering the use of an oil additive with good cleaning properties. Engine oil is designed to hold crud in suspension so that it can be drained out during the oil change. Whatever doesn't get caught by the screen gets circulated through the engine.

I just use the stuff as a top end lube (fuel additive) on and engine of unknown internal condition.

[BillCNC]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Bill, One of the best replies I've ever gotten, Sincere Thank you! I have no animus to MMO as some do. It's great stuff ! It's just that I can't get past the solvent aspect of it. It seems to be working for you, however, is there a point where you will stop? Or do you feel comfortable using it indefinitely? I have used both STP and ATF in engines. As was stated,STP seems to be for increasing the viscosity of the oil. Which to my mind is the wrong way to use it. STP seems to be stickier than most lubes. It clings to cylinder walls, cams, valves and other internal parts. This is desirable to prevent moisture from rusting while sitting unused. I learned about this when I was flying and doing simple jobs as a amateur airplane mechanic. Planes sit out on the ramp. exposed to all kinds of weather and moisture penetrates into their engines. This moisture forms on all unprotected surfaces and when the engine is finally started, it scrapes these rust particles off and into the oil which is about the equivalent of throwing a can of valve grinding compound in your crankcase. On an old engine, it is important to start it with the old oil, let it run for a few moments and drain the oil out and flush with Kerosene before you put fresh oil back it. Then change it again after a few miles.
Also, number two STP property that I like. "They" will tell you that STP is not a lubricant. It even says so on the can! it is a heck of a lubricant! Try this, take a good sized screwdriver and hold it with two fingers, pinching the blade. Clean, dry, no problem. Now, put a little 10 30 on it or your fingers, it doesn't matter. You can still hold it. Yeah it's slipprier than it was dry, but you can hold it. Now, clean it off and apply some STP! Surprise! There's no holding it! In my mind, this test says it all. STP is a good lubricant!
Terry

Thanks Terry, I do try.

After I bought the car, I did pull the pan and replace the rope seal and pan gasket. When underneath, I didn't see any sludge or buildup of any kind. I also put a bore-scope down each cylinder and the piston and walls were clean and not scored. I have used MMO on many many cars, so I know the benefits it provides. Considering the motor hadn't been turned over in the 10 years prior to my buying it, I knew the MMO would loosen everything up. I also changed my oil at 100 mile intervals to prevent contaminates from doing serious harm. I switch o the zinc for this one oil change so I could add a little wear protection to the metal parts after they have been bathed in MMO for 300 miles. I'll go 100 miles with the added zinc and then switch to no additives in the oil and just stick with the Rotella T4 15-40w.

What is forever; ... 4oz of MMO, and 1-2 oz. of Sta-Bil 360 in every fill-up!

Regards
Bill

[Gene F]

Interesting post #15, bottom bullet point says;

*Not designed for passenger car use.

I will say this, that Lucas Oil Stabilizer seems like good stuff. The idea of holding the oil to the parts as much as possible sounds like a great idea.