The Ford Barn

johnneilson · 12-23-2022, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

3. The fast model "A" motors at Bonneville are turning closer to 7000 rpm. At least get the lies right....

I've never turned mine over 7200!!!

Jim,

First liar has no chance!!

When you look at the data trace for a run you will appreciate all the work going into a motor.

The RPM trace is 6800-7000 rpm for 20+ seconds, and that is just the third mile!!

J

Richard Knight · 12-23-2022, 02:00 PM

Seeing as my shop was mentioned I guess I should make a few comments. I am not sure who Joe k. Is but I suspect he might have visited the shop at one time. I have never owned a bridgeport although I occasionally lost over having one. I am lucky to be able to use one of three bridgeports less than ten minutes from my house. I did have a kwikway cylinder boring bar and when I did use it to bore cylinders I did set it up below the ring travel so I would bore the cylinder exactly where ford bored it. Did that match the prints, I have no idea. Modern boring centers can bore the holes off dimensions imputed to the machine. A great leap forward. I did purchase a brand new sunnen CK10 homing machine which did an awesome job. Model A blocks are very hard and anyone who has honed out a couple of thousands can attest to that. The sunnen did not care how hard the block was but there are techniques that gave better results. Modern engine blocks where more machine able or I would say soft like a chevy small block. There is no doubt when a cylinder is bored or honed a ridged hone is the way to go. On a rering or overhaul a spring loaded hone works well and a light touch with a dingle berry hone does not hurt a thing. There are hard limits you don't want to pass when overhauling an engine. Not everyone wants or can afford a full rebuild. A model A engine lends itself to reminding, adjusting bearings etc. Some folks are perfectly happy with another five or ten thousand miles out of an engine. I hope I didn't make too many mis spelled and left out words.

Richard Knight · 12-23-2022, 02:07 PM

It boggles my mind that Jim and others are turning their engines as fast as they do. The A engine I had in my sedan had counterweights added by my dad and balanced in a race shop and turned 4k at limerick regularly on babbitt and dippers. I thought that was pretty good!. Oh I forgot that engine is installed in an old dirt track car. I wasn't driving my Murray sedan down the straitaway!

Joe K · 12-23-2022, 02:51 PM

Sorry Richard. The Bridgeport was mentioned in my visit to your shop more than once. I assumed it was yours.

The double ended mill/reamer for doing rod faces from the early 20th century was a delight to my historical eyes to see.

And the Model B engine that went to a Gordon Smith Compressor WITH THE CRACK you warned me about is about to have the crack pinned with locknstitch - not by me - by someone who has the special taps & kit.

Glad to see you're still around - you're missed and remembered.

Along with Arnold Goff who I have totally lost track of.

Merry Christmas, or whatever your seasonal celebration may be.

Joe K

Richard Knight · 12-24-2022, 07:17 PM

Joe k. No problem. I appreciate the honorable mention. I just want to keep everything straight. And I appreciate your comments. The Worcester came to rockport last summer and Jim called Arnold who is out in Washington or Oregon. I think he is 80. We are all getting older. I got back into As a little over a year ago. Have a coupe with a B that will getting a burtz I built and I overhauling the original engine for the burtz.

Richard Knight · 12-24-2022, 07:21 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I should have proff read that! I think you can figure it out. The original engine for the Briggs which is original paint, original everything!

V8COOPMAN · 12-25-2022, 11:38 PM

Oops!

V8COOPMAN · 12-27-2022, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnneilson

Jim,

First liar has no chance!!

When you look at the data trace for a run you will appreciate all the work going into a motor.

The RPM trace is 6800-7000 rpm for 20+ seconds, and that is just the third mile!!

J

BELOW is a link to listen to "Pete" Samuelson's Model "B" flathead 4-cylinder engine turning over 7K. This is our Pete here on F'Barn! Click the link BELOW!

Coop

https://youtu.be/eH4qVRDGyE8

.

12-23-2022, 02:00 PM	#22
Richard Knight Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 130	Re: Which cylinder honer is better? Seeing as my shop was mentioned I guess I should make a few comments. I am not sure who Joe k. Is but I suspect he might have visited the shop at one time. I have never owned a bridgeport although I occasionally lost over having one. I am lucky to be able to use one of three bridgeports less than ten minutes from my house. I did have a kwikway cylinder boring bar and when I did use it to bore cylinders I did set it up below the ring travel so I would bore the cylinder exactly where ford bored it. Did that match the prints, I have no idea. Modern boring centers can bore the holes off dimensions imputed to the machine. A great leap forward. I did purchase a brand new sunnen CK10 homing machine which did an awesome job. Model A blocks are very hard and anyone who has honed out a couple of thousands can attest to that. The sunnen did not care how hard the block was but there are techniques that gave better results. Modern engine blocks where more machine able or I would say soft like a chevy small block. There is no doubt when a cylinder is bored or honed a ridged hone is the way to go. On a rering or overhaul a spring loaded hone works well and a light touch with a dingle berry hone does not hurt a thing. There are hard limits you don't want to pass when overhauling an engine. Not everyone wants or can afford a full rebuild. A model A engine lends itself to reminding, adjusting bearings etc. Some folks are perfectly happy with another five or ten thousand miles out of an engine. I hope I didn't make too many mis spelled and left out words.

12-23-2022, 02:07 PM	#23
Richard Knight Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 130	Re: Which cylinder honer is better? It boggles my mind that Jim and others are turning their engines as fast as they do. The A engine I had in my sedan had counterweights added by my dad and balanced in a race shop and turned 4k at limerick regularly on babbitt and dippers. I thought that was pretty good!. Oh I forgot that engine is installed in an old dirt track car. I wasn't driving my Murray sedan down the straitaway!

12-23-2022, 02:51 PM	#24
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Which cylinder honer is better? Sorry Richard. The Bridgeport was mentioned in my visit to your shop more than once. I assumed it was yours. The double ended mill/reamer for doing rod faces from the early 20th century was a delight to my historical eyes to see. And the Model B engine that went to a Gordon Smith Compressor WITH THE CRACK you warned me about is about to have the crack pinned with locknstitch - not by me - by someone who has the special taps & kit. Glad to see you're still around - you're missed and remembered. Along with Arnold Goff who I have totally lost track of. Merry Christmas, or whatever your seasonal celebration may be. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

12-24-2022, 07:17 PM	#25
Richard Knight Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 130	Re: Which cylinder honer is better? Joe k. No problem. I appreciate the honorable mention. I just want to keep everything straight. And I appreciate your comments. The Worcester came to rockport last summer and Jim called Arnold who is out in Washington or Oregon. I think he is 80. We are all getting older. I got back into As a little over a year ago. Have a coupe with a B that will getting a burtz I built and I overhauling the original engine for the burtz.

12-24-2022, 07:21 PM	#26
Richard Knight Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 130	Re: Which cylinder honer is better? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I should have proff read that! I think you can figure it out. The original engine for the Briggs which is original paint, original everything!

12-25-2022, 11:38 PM	#27
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,114	Re: Which cylinder honer is better? Oops! __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE* Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 12-26-2022 at 10:46 AM.