New project that should be fun

[Kube]

Hello folks. I am quite new to the A world.
I am beginning work on a project of sorts. I have two chassis' that have both been in long term storage. This chassis (in phots) has not been run since the mid 1960's.
The goal is to make one reliable "driver" pickup.
The photos attached are the first of the two chassis. This one will be used primarily for parts.
This will be kinda slow going due to my certain learning curve.
I'll try to post progress as it happens.

[Gary WA]

Looks to be a Great project..!

[Chuck Dempsey]

Have fun!

[Kube]

Thanks guys. Ya know, I have restored seventeen cars prior to this project. All are trailer queens, the worst 997 points. Building a "driver" will be fun, well, for the most part. I expect frustrating moments

[Bob C]

I that is the cab you are using then you need to make sure the chassis you
use has a 1930-31 front cross member so the hood will align with the cowl
and radiator shell.

[ronn]

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for you, this will be easy. the exception might be keeping it a "driver" and not trying to make it too good.........

[Planojc]

At this point early in the process, check the frame to see if it is straight. This will be critical in fitting the hood to the cowl.

[Kube]

Had some progress today I suppose. I want to get this engine running as it may ultimately be utilized.
Distributor was "goofed up". Straightened that out nicely.
It seems to me (not an A guy) that the cam on the top of the shaft is not keyed. I did my best to install it where the rotor lines up with #1. Yes? No?

I'll thank all of you guys in advance for putting up with what you guys surely will think of as stupid questions.
Thanks

[mcgarrett]

Kube,
Don't forget to place the "timing pin" in the dimple in the cam gear first to confirm that you are at top dead center. Then adjust the points to .020 and index the rotor to where the points just begin to open as the tab on the rotor is just passing #1 contact on the distributor.

Follow the details in this link and you'll be right on:
http://www.modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm

[nkaminar]

A good book to have for the mechanical aspects is The Model A Mechanics Handbook, Vol. 1, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/2...0031&cat=41621

[Kube]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Kube,
Don't forget to place the "timing pin" in the dimple in the cam gear first to confirm that you are at top dead center. Then adjust the points to .020 and index the rotor to where the points just begin to open as the tab on the rotor is just passing #1 contact on the distributor.

Follow the details in this link and you'll be right on:
http://www.modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm

Thank you. This makes the process make more sense to me.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

A good book to have for the mechanical aspects is The Model A Mechanics Handbook, Vol. 1, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/2...0031&cat=41621

Oh yes! I have that book. I think I have read it cover to cover three or more times

[Chuck Dempsey]

What McGarrett said, plus be sure to turn the cam clockwise to take up any 'play' before determining the tighten point. The cam turns counter-clockwise, so should always be in the most clockwise edge of the 'play'. Hard to explain, but easier to see when you work on it....

[Kube]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Kube,
Don't forget to place the "timing pin" in the dimple in the cam gear first to confirm that you are at top dead center. Then adjust the points to .020 and index the rotor to where the points just begin to open as the tab on the rotor is just passing #1 contact on the distributor.

Follow the details in this link and you'll be right on:
http://www.modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm

Your link is very helpful in that now I have a better "picture" of what exactly I need to do.
Thanks much!

[31a]

I decided a long time ago that they are no stupid questions keep them coming

[deuce5wndw]

Oh yeah this is going to be good!!! Looking forward to this build! Kube, show them a picture of the 40 pickup you did.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 31a

I decided a long time ago that they are no stupid questions keep them coming

Thanks for making me feel a bit less ignorant.
I have a tendency to overthink things. Probably not a good thing when dealing with a car that at least to me seems fairly simplistic.
Still, this is so very different than anything I'd ever worked on, well, I am aware that there are many things I don't know that I don't know.

I promise to post as I progress. Unless you guys' tire of me...

[Kube]

Originally Posted by deuce5wndw

Oh yeah this is going to be good!!! Looking forward to this build! Kube, show them a picture of the 40 pickup you did.

Looks as if I've been busted!
Deuce, please keep in mind the intention is build a driver, not a trailer queen.
That'll be a first for me

[deuce5wndw]

Any progress?

[51504bat]

I'm sure I'm going to take a lot of flak for this but so be it. Since you're going for a daily driver you might want to consider a hydraulic brake conversion along with 16 inch wires. JMO and let the flaming begin.

[Chuck Dempsey]

Great looking truck. Would the spare tire lock have been standard equipment back in the day?

[Gene F]

Kube, I can not stress enough the value of joining your local Model-A chapter. If you do, you will always have a friend to call and come over and explain things to you.

[rotorwrench]

The older cars are easier to work on than those years just before the war. They are more simplistic and a lot of fun to bebop around in. The better your parts are the easier the job will be. It will open up a new part of the Ford world for you and expand your knowledge base for sure. Break a leg on your old fliver project.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The older cars are easier to work on than those years just before the war. They are more simplistic and a lot of fun to bebop around in. The better your parts are the easier the job will be. It will open up a new part of the Ford world for you and expand your knowledge base for sure. Break a leg on your old fliver project.

I believe I have it ready to fire up. Rebuilt the distributor and carburetor. Mounted a clean auxiliary fuel tank so I may be certain fuel is clean and flows properly.
Cleaned and gapped plugs. New wiring from instrument panel to engine, um, what little there is of a "harness".
Cleaned connections at starter very well. Strong battery.

Didn't check compression but can hear all four cylinders "huffing" when I turned engine over manually.

All linkages move freely.

So, gurus... what might I be missing here?

Wanna try later today. Fingers crossed

[mcgarrett]

- Make sure the spark advance and throttle levers on the steering column are all the way in the up position.

- With the key on, step on the starter and while the engine is turning over, pull the choke rod out for just a split second and then push it back all the way in. The engine should start at that point. If you leave the choke pulled out for too long while the engine is turning over it will flood it.

[Charlie Stephens]

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Be sure to make a visit to your local DMV and see what you will need to make them happy.

Charlie Stephens

[Brentwood Bob]

Famciet.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Be sure to make a visit to your local DMV and see what you will need to make them happy.

Charlie Stephens

Got that covered.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Chuck Dempsey

Great looking truck. Would the spare tire lock have been standard equipment back in the day?

Yes, standard equipment on the pickup trucks in 1940. My gosh you have good eyesight!

On the '40 passenger cars, it was a dealer available accessory.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

- Make sure the spark advance and throttle levers on the steering column are all the way in the up position.

- With the key on, step on the starter and while the engine is turning over, pull the choke rod out for just a split second and then push it back all the way in. The engine should start at that point. If you leave the choke pulled out for too long while the engine is turning over it will flood it.

Thanks much!

Why I am so nervous about this?

[rotorwrench]

A person can get a download copy of the owners manual with starting procedures. Set GAV to nominal by turning the choke knob with idle screw at nominal. It should start.

Sticking valves are common on engines that have set a while. If it was pushing air out of all four then it should be good. I usually prime the oil system by pouring a quart down through the distributor drive bore. This will preoil the cam bearings and main bearings. Disregard if you've already done that.

[Chris in WNC]

Since it has been sitting up a long time, do not run the engine very long without dropping the pan to clean out the dirt and "surprises" that may be there.

Juice brakes are over-rated. Put that money toward making the mechanicals perfect.
Cast iron drums, arced woven linings and NO wear or slop in the linkages.
Easy to maintain and equal stopping power.

[rotorwrench]

I agree on the brakes. If the mechanical types are set up properly, they work every bit as good as Lockheed hydraulic types. A person doesn't have to worry about servicing the brake fluid or corrosion in the master & wheel cylinders. These cars can set up a long time without the need to replace old rubber parts. With a top speed around 65 and a cruise speed of 55 MPH, braking is not as big a concern as it is on faster and heavier cars. Owners choice though. Many have been converted.

[Kube]

Mornin' guys.
well, some success. The engine starts and putters. That's good news as it hasn't been run in over fifty years.
The isse?
Well, fuel is leaking directly from bottom of carburetor. I'd like to get that fixed prior to allowing the engine to run for any length of time (safety).
Any thoughts?

[rotorwrench]

Stuck float needle or maybe a bad gasket joint. Any internal leak will dribble out the bottom.

[Kube]

Hello guys... sorry to bother ya again.

Took the carburetor apart and could find nothing apparent (to me anyway) that is incorrect. Still, something must be as the fuel leaks from the air intake as soon as I open the tank valve.
Advice please...

[Brentwood Bob]

Too many gaskets under the main jet? Worn float valve, parked on an incline?

[oldspert]

I had the same problem. Purchased the gasoline level gauge and set the float at precisely 5/8". Stopped the leak back. Maybe your needle or seat is corroded. Good tool to have for adjusting float level

[Kube]

Brentwood and Oldspert,
I'll pull the carb back off and check these things once again. I'll report back ASAP.
Thanks men!

[mcgarrett]

Kube,
I assume you have a Zenith carb? They can be fussy if everything isn't right.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Kube,
I assume you have a Zenith carb? They can be fussy if everything isn't right.

Yes, a Zenith.

[Kube]

Guys, yet another most likely ignorant question.

Is this carburetor piece supposed to have a clear passage from one end to the other? In other words, should I be able to snake a very thin wire though it?

I believe it should be clean through. If I am reading and understanding correctly, a #75 drill is proper to clear this.
Yes? No? I am full of poopy?
Thanks guys.

[Bob C]

Looks like whats left of an idle jet.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Looks like whats left of an idle jet.

Hmmmm.... I continue to learn.
I did think this was an idle jet but didn't envision what you depict.
There is a number "11" stamped on the side.

Just ordered a new one from Bratton's.

Thanks guys!

[Kube]

I thought it proper to bring ya all up to date.
Got the engine starting and running quite nicely. All the while, I'd learned quite a bit.
The engine has not run in decades. I am surprised at just how smooth it runs.
I really appreciate all the advice you guys gave me.
Thanks to all!

[mcgarrett]

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Built Ford Tough!

[Kube]

Now I find the clutch frozen. Pulling the trans. today

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Kube

Yes, standard equipment on the pickup trucks in 1940. My gosh you have good eyesight!

On the '40 passenger cars, it was a dealer available accessory.

Interesting - seems redundant on passenger cars (except maybe Station Wagon) as spare is in trunk.

[rotorwrench]

Not a bad idea since clutches tend to do that after a long sleep. There are other was to break them loose but some ways can be a bit tricky.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Not a bad idea since clutch he's tend to do that after a long sleep. There are other was to break them loose but some ways can be a bit tricky.

Got the trans. out. Disc was stuck. I'll finish the reassembly tomorrow.
I'm pooped.

[Kube]

Trans. is back in. Bit by bit
Ran the chassis around the yard today. What a blast!
Runs quite well, shifts smoothly.

Now? Can't get the starter to engage.
All connections are VERY clean and tight. 6.2v at starter.
I did disassemble the starter switch and cleaned it very well. Slight sign of arcing on contact that I'd carefully cleaned up.
Starter is not locked up.

Methinks bad switch and / or starter.
What else can it possibly be? Not much to the system in my opinion.

[Zax40]

Make sure the starter rod is not making contact with the floor when depressed. Also make sure the Bendix bolts have not worked loose.

[Model "A" Fords]

Originally Posted by Kube

Trans. is back in. Bit by bit
Ran the chassis around the yard today. What a blast!
Runs quite well, shifts smoothly.

Now? Can't get the starter to engage.
All connections are VERY clean and tight. 6.2v at starter.
I did disassemble the starter switch and cleaned it very well. Slight sign of arcing on contact that I'd carefully cleaned up.
Starter is not locked up.

Methinks bad switch and / or starter.
What else can it possibly be? Not much to the system in my opinion.

I remember back in the sixties when people traded in their cars once the ashtray was full!

Kube, you are persistent, ask and follow suggestions well, and are enjoying yourself to boot. This is a great example how, many minds working together can do good things! Best of luck on your project.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

I remember back in the sixties when people traded in their cars once the ashtray was full!

Kube, you are persistent, ask and follow suggestions well, and are enjoying yourself to boot. This is a great example how, many minds working together can do good things! Best of luck on your project.

Ya know, I have found the Model A guys especially willing to help a newbie like me. I am so appreciative

[rotorwrench]

Ford's first starter switch for the model A was a rectangular shaped housing with an external pedal return coil spring with a shroud cover over the spring. These were very good switches but were not as simple as the late type switch used through the end of production. The actuator insulator inside the late switch likes to break and render the switch inop. Some folks pitch the litte cross shaped insulator and fabricate an insulator from nylon or delrin that is made to fit in there better. There should be a thread on here about this modification.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Ford's first starter switch for the model A was a rectangular shaped housing with an external pedal return coil spring with a shroud cover over the spring. These were very good switches but were not as simple as the late type switch used through the end of production. The actuator insulator inside the late switch likes to break and render the switch inop. Some folks pitch the litte cross shaped insulator and fabricate an insulator from nylon or delrin that is made to fit in there better. There should be a thread on here about this modification.

Hmmm... the cross shaped insulator is about an inch long overall. Does that sound about right? I didn't find any extraneous pieces when I had disassembled the switch.

[rotorwrench]

That sounds about right. It's not very big so yours may still be intact. The starter is a reliable enough unit but bushings & brushes are Iike any other as far as wear goes. If it rotates OK then it might have internal connection or heat related problems.

What sort of battery are you using?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

That sounds about right. It's not very big so yours may still be intact. The starter is a reliable enough unit but bushings & brushes are Iike any other as far as wear goes. If it rotates OK then it might have internal connection or heat related problems.

What sort of battery are you using?

Acid type, tests at 6.4v.

I did remove the starter and did a "quickie" bench test. Spins very slow. Book I have states around 4000rpm. It's nowhere even close. I'll tear it down asap and see what's going on in there.

I'd bypassed the switch when the starter was installed. It would not activate.

[Kube]

Removed the fuel tank today. Not too difficult but a bit time consuming. Only broke off six screws. The good news is the tank appears to be rather clean inside. Still, I'll acid dip it and seal thoroughly.

[Bob C]

When you go back together the welt for the gas tank is smaller than fender welt, you need 1/8". Here is a picture Marco posted of how the welt was cut and punched in case your old one is trashed.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Bob C

When you go back together the welt for the gas tank is smaller than fender welt, you need 1/8". Here is a picture Marco posted of how the welt was cut and punched in case your old

one is trashed.

Thanks Bob. I have the 1/8" bead material from 1940 Ford projects.

[Kube]

Fuel tank is back in. I keep learning new things.

Now, here's the latest issue:
This car has started up quickly, smoothed out almost immediately and runs well. Now? The spark advance rod is heating up. Obviously, it's getting some electrical juice to it somehow.
I have gone through the distributor (again) and did find the lower plate to be defective. Installed a new one that tested fine.
The rod still gets hot.
I am utilizing a modern "key switch" vs. the authentic pop out. I was careful not to thread that in too far.
What am I missing guys?

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Kube

Fuel tank is back in. I keep learning new things.

Now, here's the latest issue:
This car has started up quickly, smoothed out almost immediately and runs well. Now? The spark advance rod is heating up. Obviously, it's getting some electrical juice to it somehow.
I have gone through the distributor (again) and did find the lower plate to be defective. Installed a new one that tested fine.
The rod still gets hot.
I am utilizing a modern "key switch" vs. the authentic pop out. I was careful not to thread that in too far.
What am I missing guys?

Check your grounds. Sounds like your path to ground in thru the advance rod!! When things get corroded the electrons with take the easiest path, in your case the advance rod.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Ruth

Check your grounds. Sounds like your path to ground in thru the advance rod!! When things get corroded the electrons with take the easiest path, in your case the advance rod.

I'm probably overthinking this. I do that a lot.

The ground from the battery to the frame is beautiful. Where else should I look?

[Seth Swoboda]

Hi Mike. Sometimes I creep the Model A forum. Glad to see you're enjoying this new project.

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by Kube

Looks as if I've been busted!
Deuce, please keep in mind the intention is build a driver, not a trailer queen.
That'll be a first for me

That truck is beautiful. There is something about that green color. Classy, yet still looks like a work truck.

[AYooperA]

Just a thought, Could the horn wire be shorting somewhere in the column and getting to the advance rod?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by AYooperA

Just a thought, Could the horn wire be shorting somewhere in the column and getting to the advance rod?

ZERO wires hooked up going to or through horn rod at this time.

[rotorwrench]

If the spark control lever rod is getting hot via the distributor connection then the lever on the distributor should be hot too. The switch rod is inside the steering shaft which has contact at the top via the column bushing and at the bottom through the worm & bearings. The top bushing originally had a cotton web piece permiated with grease to act as a bushing but they deteriorate and make more contact as they wear. The bushing puck was originally zinc die cast and it makes contact with the whole column jacket and the control rods. I'd figure all that all that stuff would be hot if there is a direct short but that is the ground path so it only has flow when there is ground contact and a full circuit to flow some current. The wire inside the light switch/horn rod can short in there but the horn would sound if it still functions. Disconnect the horn power wire and insulate it to see if the heat effect goes away. Wires can short together down in the light switch and make a path where there was no path before. If the light and horn power wires are disconnected from the generator then I don't know where the current flow could be coming from.

Other sources of heat aren't close enough to the steering column to affect it much. The control rod that runs between the spark lever on the distributor and the spark lever rod might contact the head but I don't think it would conduct much heat to the rod in the column. The throttle hand control is eventually connected to the engine but it doesn't usually get all that hot back there. It gets hot close to the manifold but conducting heat all the way up into the cab is a long shot.

[Kube]

Just to be clear (I hope) ... I have NO wires in the steering column at this time. The rod to the distributor is getting hot not from running (engine heat) but rather, from electricity.

[Bob C]

Run an additional ground wire from the one connected to the frame
to the transmission.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Kube

I'm probably overthinking this. I do that a lot.

The ground from the battery to the frame is beautiful. Where else should I look?

Yes but how is the ground of the engine to the battery and/or frame? Sounds like your ground path is from the distributor thru the spark advance rod to the frame then back to the battery.

Do as Bob C suggested and Run an additional ground wire from the one connected to the frame or battery to the transmission.

[katy]

Do as Bob C suggested and Run an additional ground wire from the one connected to the frame or battery to the transmission.

Make that a ground cable, same size as the cable from the battery to the starter, not just a wire.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Run an additional ground wire from the one connected to the frame
to the transmission.

I'd added a woven ground strap between the transmission / battery ground at frame rail. I'd also added a woven strap from the block to the frame rail.
Guess what? IT DID THE TRICK!!!


I sincerely want to thank you and all of the others that had offered me advice.
You Model A guys are the most helpful group I'd ever "worked" with.

THANK YOU ONE AND ALL!

[sugarmaker]

Kube,
I also found you! A driver you say? Well it sure sounds like you're having a blast! A lot like me when i started on my truck project. Good luck on your A pickup.
We could use some pictures!
Regards,
Chris and Cheryl