F s ignitions problem ,your thoughts

[quickchange]

I purchased a sedan that has an FS Ignition in stock A distributor fitted to vehicle, The vehicle has stipe cam & brumfield head, Weber carb 6 volts , On start up with ignition turned off ,Engine spins over nice thanks to a RD rebuilt starter. Once ignition is turned on the engine kicks back on the starter as though timming is too far advance, we have tried advancing & retarding the timming , no change so put back to correct with timming light plus pointer, once it does fire up runs good with little advance so i know the timming is correct, Done 1000,s this way but is hard to start compared to stock set up, It turns plenty fast enough , Question is ,Any one had this problem??I do have a spare Module but thinking of going to stock dissy,Indentation in timming gear matches TDC, Vehicle runs very well, Just hard to start Any thoughts . thanks Derek

[steve s]

Sure sounds like there's too much advance. Since you apparently bought that car with a lot of fancy add-ons, are you sure there's not a centrifugal advance unit in the valve chamber? Listen for a clunk when you lift the distributor.

You probably realize that the high compression head doesn't need as much advance.

Steve

[quickchange]

Steve More than sure its not too much advance , Yes run several hi comp head so aware of advance, It sounds & runs good , just the start up, Valve timming ???Maybe . Thanks ,

[glenn in camino]

After living and fighting with it for several years, I finally went back to a stock distributor. My engine now runs better than ever and I have control of my spark on hills and flat land.

[Benson]

Derek,

I have seen this before we tried all the things listed and some others.

Here is what fixed it:

Install a dist cap with plug in wires ( not original dist cap) and use carbon radio suppression wires instead of solid copper wires.
Including the wire from coil to dist cap.

The problem is that random voltage spikes trigger the electronic module radomly and cause the engine to "buck" the starter with the key turned on. THe suppression wires reduce the random triggering.

I am not sure why it runs OK at speed and fails only at starter motor speeds.

Maybe it is a combination of the random triggers plus noise from the starter brushes.

Originally Posted by quickchange

I purchased a sedan that has an FS Ignition in stock A distributor fitted to vehicle, The vehicle has stipe cam & brumfield head, Weber carb 6 volts , On start up with ignition turned off ,Engine spins over nice thanks to a RD rebuilt starter. Once ignition is turned on the engine kicks back on the starter as though timming is too far advance, we have tried advancing & retarding the timming , no change so put back to correct with timming light plus pointer, once it does fire up runs good with little advance so i know the timming is correct, Done 1000,s this way but is hard to start compared to stock set up, It turns plenty fast enough , Question is ,Any one had this problem??I do have a spare Module but thinking of going to stock dissy,Indentation in timming gear matches TDC, Vehicle runs very well, Just hard to start Any thoughts . thanks Derek

[columbiA]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

When an"A"dist is PROPERLY rebuilt,they are very trouble free & the engine will generally start within a 1/2 turn.I dont see the sense of putting all kinds of "modern" upgrades on the car when the original worked just fine. JMO

[quickchange]

Benson, Thanks I will try as you suggest. Thats the type of answer i was seeking, will report back,
Columbia your SENCE is noted,

[2manycars]

I love the simplicity and reliability and serviceability of points.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Just to muddy up the waters, one of the key reasons why the electronic ignition jumped in popularity is because the supply of good distributor cams were hard to obtain, ...and the reproduction ones being supplied by vendors were 'junk'. The benefit of the electronic was that all four cylinders received their spark at matching degrees before TDC. The elec ign also allows for better coil saturation over stock which generally creates a hotter spark. Both of these greatly improved performance and the smoothness of the engine. The benefit for us is Bill Stipe came to the rescue and designed a stock dist. cam that had four lobes that matched and creates a better spark due to its profile.

[quickchange]

Locating some suppresion wire today . So will report once tried, the vehicle came with the electronic dissy plus a spare modual , my other 6 have stock dissys with mod points . Enjoy the challenge working it out, & perhaps help someone else down the line, spring is here yahoo.

[Benson]

Ah the good old days!

Yes I got one of the Motorola 7.5 lb "brick" phones in '87 or '88.

I still have it (and my analog Motorola Flip Phone) even though they turned off Analog in 2008.

It is still fun to put the 7.5 lb phone on the table at a resturant and wait for some one to notice it!

" I am waiting for an important phone call! "

The cell sites were so far apart and with the limited number of channels per tower it was common for all the channels on a tower to be in use and for the phone to find a tower many miles away to complete the call.

The 5 Watt transmitter on that phone allowed access to the towers many miles away especially when traveling in the mountains where "line of sight" from 150 to 200 miles away was common.

The boss would ask "how come you made a long distance call to the Dispatch Center from Cheyenne, WY last Friday? Weren't you working in Boulder that night?"

Originally Posted by PaulShinn

For the exact same reason people think "digital is better". Anyone who remembers the old analog cell phones will recall just how good the audio quality was on them. The new digital phones make everyone sound like a Cylon. Also, the new over the air digital TV has all kinds of dropouts and program interruptions where the analog over the air TV was actually much more robust.

Modern doesn't necessarily mean better. Although, the "modern" points do seem to last a lot longer than the old style points, I'll give in to that.

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by 2manycars

I love the simplicity and reliability and serviceability of points.

Same here.

Originally Posted by PaulShinn

Also, the new over the air digital TV has all kinds of dropouts and program interruptions where the analog over the air TV was actually much more robust.

i think they did that to make broadcasts easier to jam.

[Loyd Nix]

Try calling FS Ignitions in Oklahoma and talk to Mel. He is very patient and helpful. My guess is that the problem is not in the distributor itself but some thing in the installation or wiring.

[Ross/Kzoo]

I have my own theory on the FS ignition that I have in car. A few weeks ago the car wouldn't start, it would spin like crazy but not start. I didn't seem like it was getting spark. I hooked the charger to it overnight and then it started immediately. I think that when the battery is low that the starter draws so so much current while starting that the coil can't produce the proper spark to fire off. FS recommends a high output coil and I think this is the reason why.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Ross/Kzoo

I have my own theory on the FS ignition that I have in car. A few weeks ago the car wouldn't start, it would spin like crazy but not start. I didn't seem like it was getting spark. I hooked the charger to it overnight and then it started immediately. I think that when the battery is low that the starter draws so so much current while starting that the coil can't produce the proper spark to fire off. FS recommends a high output coil and I think this is the reason why.

Ross ,
I agree with your thoughts. Especially when using a six volt battery the threshold for the electronics to work are much tighter than with a 12 volt unit.

[Benson]

Originally Posted by fordgarage

I've still got two of those old Motorola TAC flip phones, and a bag phone also.
I like your idea of carrying them around for fun.
They sure were better phones for reception and sound quality.
"On a clear night you can pick up Galveston!" haha

Yes it is really fun to hear some folks ... "They had cell phones WAY BACK then ??" or "Look at it ... it is SO BIG!"

What convinced me to pay the $800 for a cell phone, was trying to find a phone booth at 2:00 AM in some bad part of town and finding drug needles in the booth while calling in to dispatch. Or trying to find change at that time of the night.

I traveled to unfamiliar cities and did not always know what areas were safe or not.

"I am not going to shot and robbed by some idiot while in a phone booth after making it out of Vietnam."

About that time a fellow Veteran friend was cornered inside two glass doors in some big city back East ... shot in the stomach and left there at "O dark thirty".

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Benson

...trying to find a phone booth...

What's a phone booth? --- Oh wait, I remember ...

[Gord. B by the bay]

I have 2 A's with FS ignition and they ahave always started in about half a roll of the starter (12volt) but I have always "fine tuned" with the rotor location by the sound of the engine I also adjust with the spark lever in the center location it works for me
51,000 on one A and 26,000 on the other but as mentioned above never try to start with a low battery the module does not like it
Enjoy Many Miles
Gord. B by the Bay

[Dave in MN]

Just to eliminate something simple...check the ground connections on the electronic module. I had a similar problem with an electronic ignition system I was working on. The car would not produce a spark when the engine was turned over with the starter. If I switched the ignition off while cranking and then turned it on, it would fire and start the engine. So... press on the starter and then turn the key on...what the? Well it turned out to be a bad ground on the electronic system. I cleaned the connection surfaces and coated them with dielectric grease and it worked. I think the drop in voltage while cranking caused the lack of sufficient current in the electronic module. Why it fired when the key was turned on while cranking...I don't know.
Good luck in your search!
Good Day!

[quickchange]

6 volt battery checks out fine, with ignition off engine spins freely , turn ignition on & it kicks back like timming advanced, does not start quickly like normal A does, But once it does all is fine , Have e mailed Mel & await reply, I met him at Chickasha swap in March, Awaiting shield leads for try, I beleive previous owner had same problem, We will continue to try things , before going 12volts, thanks for suggestions all.