The Ford Barn

53Crestline · 09-17-2010, 06:32 PM

Ok, well to get it out of the way, I'm as green and green can be when it comes to automatic transmissions. I know basic principles, but no details on what, how, and why it happens inside one.

The '53 has been on the road for two weeks now, pics are in my profile if interested...

But I have a transmission issue. It's the original '53, 3 speed Ford-O and it was rebuilt this spring by a reputable transmission builder who I've been in contact with, but who is also 200 miles from here...(friend of my parents back home).

The original Flathead was rebuilt this spring as well and is in front of the Ford-O. The car runs fatastic; idle, timing, revving, pulls 20 inches of steady vaccuum, sounds great, looks great, etc, etc...all good.

...but the trans slips in 2nd gear sometimes and makes a strange "whrring" sound when I'm pulling up to stop signs/lights(as it's downshifting from 3rd), and then continues to "whir" and slip when I try to take off again. Now granted it has only actually slipped on me three times in two weeks of driving. ...I would say out of every twenty stops and starts, it may slip once, but usually makes the whirring sounds at almost every one. ...and it seems to be more frequesnt the more I drive it in a day...

When I first got it running, I drove it around town some that Saturday and Sunday, paying close attention to everything, going slow, taking it easy on everything and everything seemed fine, but on the way home from a picnic on that Monday evening, I stepped on it hard for about 100 to 200 feet and then 2nd gear slipped so bad I couldn't get going after stopping at the stop light.

I noticed a "whirring" sound when coming up to the stop light as it downshifted from 3rd to 2nd, and that's when it wouldn't grab 2nd when the light turned green. It just kept "whirring" and slipped the more I gave it gas. We did get going a little bit, so I turned off instead and we pulled it over (both kids and irritated wife in the car). We sat for a few seconds, put it back in "D", it still slipped a little for a block or two, but it got us home. I shut it off, unloaded the car, and then wen to pull it into the garage and it drove in perfectly. However when I took it out the next morning, it made the same whirring sounds again when slowing down, but did not slip when taking off. I just took it around the block...three stops.

So I read up on the "Throttle Linkage Z-Bar to Trans Rod Adjustment" ...you know...pull the bar up to the internal stop so that it lines up with your throttle linkage, then back that clevice off exactly 2 1/2 turns and you're done. Sure enough, mine was set all the way at the internal stop and wasn't backed of at all.

Ok, so I did that, backed it off 2 1/2 turns, took it out right away and noticed an immidiate improvment in shifting, just in general. Felt more solid. No "whirring" when it downshifted into 2nd when pulling up to a stop sign or anything...Fixed right? not so fast...

So, now the car has 30 miles on it (first 30 miles in the last 35 years). So I get brave and we take it shopping about 15 miles away...runs great the whole way except it's running a little hot...ok fine, the engines fresh and a little tight probably, and we were fluctuating between 55 and 70, so I'm ok with that.

So we get to the off-ramp and when at the busy stop light there, of course...it "whirs" again and barely pulls off the line to get us to the shopping area...it started to go a little better for second, like it was slipping less, and then for a split second, we hear a quick "grind" as it grabs 2nd gear a little bit more...considered "chatter" I'm guessing?

So now I'm pissed. We decide to shop anyway to calm my nerves about having a wife, a three year old, and an 8 month old miles from home and might need to call a buddy to come and get us with a truck and trailer.

Anyway, so we're done shopping(about an hour) go to head home and it runs perfect! Not a trans glitch within a mile of it...WTF?!

Well, the timing was in fact off some, which is probably why it was running hot I would guess. So I set that and it seems to run cooler now. Ok, fine.

But what about that second gear thing????? After talking to the builder again, he said he even checked everything with pressurized air to make sure it worked smoothly and properly before sealing it up. And he "knows" the band was set right...can't figure out why or even how it would come out of adjustment even, but it's something I could check he said.

The fluid is "TYPE F" as directed by the builder, the level is dead on(checked when hot, in Neutral), it's still cherry red, and doesn't smell burnt or anything(just like stinky trans fluid).

Could it actually be the front band out of adjustment? That band adjustment is about the extent of what I'm able to do on my own with an automatic trans...

All that was about a week ago, and I haven't taken it down the road since, I 'm a little apprehensive at the moment... I don't want to grenade the damned thing!!!

Any other ideas of what I should be doing or checking???

Anything further than that band adjustment sounds like it needs to see trans doctor...

Sorry it's so long, just wanted to give as much detail as possible to help along a possible diagnosis.

Thanks so much!

Merc Cruzer · 09-17-2010, 07:45 PM

Maybe this will help..it is the book for my Merc-O-Matic...yes it is Mercury/Lincoln but I would guess they might share some features, and give you a place to start.

Good Luck

53Crestline · 09-17-2010, 08:27 PM

Hey Thanks Merc! After looking at all the operating conditions, it sounds like it might actually be the front band afterall... I'll check it out.

Thank you!

Merc Cruzer · 09-17-2010, 09:22 PM

Sent you a PM.....

38 coupe · 09-19-2010, 09:11 PM

The Merc-O and the Ford-O were the same transmission.

40 Deluxe · 09-20-2010, 02:12 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Some items from my distant past: As you no doubt know, in normal operation the trans does it's best Powerglide imitation by starting out in 2nd gear so it's like a 2 speed. If you want 1st gear you pull the lever down into low. Some Fordomatics (maybe all, don't recall) will shift to 1st while in 'D' if you give it full throttle starting out (and the linkage is adjusted right). When it slips in 'D', have you tried pulling it down into low? This releases the front band and applies the rear band. If it quits slipping, the front band is at fault. If it still slips, it's likely the forward clutch. Is reverse OK when 2nd is acting up? The whirring may be valve resonance in the valve body or pressure regulator due to sticking or worn valves or broken/weak spring. The governor enters in here, too. It's easy to take out through the access plate on the extension housing and clean/inspect for sticking. After sitting all those years, a goober could mysteriously appear and get into a valve. Is this trans air-cooled or water-cooled? If water-cooled, junk from the lines or cooler could be in the valve body. Also, there's an aluminum plug in the back end of the input shaft with oil holes that has to line up per the shop manual instructions for proper oil flow (or maybe it's in the front end of the output shaft, can't remember and too lazy to get a manual from the garage!). There's a pressure test port (left side of case, ahead of shift lever) that you can tap into with a 300 or 400 lb. gauge to see if there's a pressure drop when it slips. It could be that a cast iron sealing ring is broken so it sometimes holds pressure and sometimes not. Also, if the gauge needle is a blur, that's valve resonance. Either way, talk to your rebuilder.

09-17-2010, 06:32 PM	#1
53Crestline Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 2	Trans trouble...need a Ford-O-Matic Guru's input. Ok, well to get it out of the way, I'm as green and green can be when it comes to automatic transmissions. I know basic principles, but no details on what, how, and why it happens inside one. The '53 has been on the road for two weeks now, pics are in my profile if interested... But I have a transmission issue. It's the original '53, 3 speed Ford-O and it was rebuilt this spring by a reputable transmission builder who I've been in contact with, but who is also 200 miles from here...(friend of my parents back home). The original Flathead was rebuilt this spring as well and is in front of the Ford-O. The car runs fatastic; idle, timing, revving, pulls 20 inches of steady vaccuum, sounds great, looks great, etc, etc...all good. ...but the trans slips in 2nd gear sometimes and makes a strange "whrring" sound when I'm pulling up to stop signs/lights(as it's downshifting from 3rd), and then continues to "whir" and slip when I try to take off again. Now granted it has only actually slipped on me three times in two weeks of driving. ...I would say out of every twenty stops and starts, it may slip once, but usually makes the whirring sounds at almost every one. ...and it seems to be more frequesnt the more I drive it in a day... When I first got it running, I drove it around town some that Saturday and Sunday, paying close attention to everything, going slow, taking it easy on everything and everything seemed fine, but on the way home from a picnic on that Monday evening, I stepped on it hard for about 100 to 200 feet and then 2nd gear slipped so bad I couldn't get going after stopping at the stop light. I noticed a "whirring" sound when coming up to the stop light as it downshifted from 3rd to 2nd, and that's when it wouldn't grab 2nd when the light turned green. It just kept "whirring" and slipped the more I gave it gas. We did get going a little bit, so I turned off instead and we pulled it over (both kids and irritated wife in the car). We sat for a few seconds, put it back in "D", it still slipped a little for a block or two, but it got us home. I shut it off, unloaded the car, and then wen to pull it into the garage and it drove in perfectly. However when I took it out the next morning, it made the same whirring sounds again when slowing down, but did not slip when taking off. I just took it around the block...three stops. So I read up on the "Throttle Linkage Z-Bar to Trans Rod Adjustment" ...you know...pull the bar up to the internal stop so that it lines up with your throttle linkage, then back that clevice off exactly 2 1/2 turns and you're done. Sure enough, mine was set all the way at the internal stop and wasn't backed of at all. Ok, so I did that, backed it off 2 1/2 turns, took it out right away and noticed an immidiate improvment in shifting, just in general. Felt more solid. No "whirring" when it downshifted into 2nd when pulling up to a stop sign or anything...Fixed right? not so fast... So, now the car has 30 miles on it (first 30 miles in the last 35 years). So I get brave and we take it shopping about 15 miles away...runs great the whole way except it's running a little hot...ok fine, the engines fresh and a little tight probably, and we were fluctuating between 55 and 70, so I'm ok with that. So we get to the off-ramp and when at the busy stop light there, of course...it "whirs" again and barely pulls off the line to get us to the shopping area...it started to go a little better for second, like it was slipping less, and then for a split second, we hear a quick "grind" as it grabs 2nd gear a little bit more...considered "chatter" I'm guessing? So now I'm pissed. We decide to shop anyway to calm my nerves about having a wife, a three year old, and an 8 month old miles from home and might need to call a buddy to come and get us with a truck and trailer. Anyway, so we're done shopping(about an hour) go to head home and it runs perfect! Not a trans glitch within a mile of it...WTF?! Well, the timing was in fact off some, which is probably why it was running hot I would guess. So I set that and it seems to run cooler now. Ok, fine. But what about that second gear thing????? After talking to the builder again, he said he even checked everything with pressurized air to make sure it worked smoothly and properly before sealing it up. And he "knows" the band was set right...can't figure out why or even how it would come out of adjustment even, but it's something I could check he said. The fluid is "TYPE F" as directed by the builder, the level is dead on(checked when hot, in Neutral), it's still cherry red, and doesn't smell burnt or anything(just like stinky trans fluid). Could it actually be the front band out of adjustment? That band adjustment is about the extent of what I'm able to do on my own with an automatic trans... All that was about a week ago, and I haven't taken it down the road since, I 'm a little apprehensive at the moment... I don't want to grenade the damned thing!!! Any other ideas of what I should be doing or checking??? Anything further than that band adjustment sounds like it needs to see trans doctor... Sorry it's so long, just wanted to give as much detail as possible to help along a possible diagnosis. Thanks so much!

09-17-2010, 08:27 PM	#3
53Crestline Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 2	Re: Trans trouble...need a Ford-O-Matic Guru's input. Hey Thanks Merc! After looking at all the operating conditions, it sounds like it might actually be the front band afterall... I'll check it out. Thank you!

09-17-2010, 09:22 PM	#4
Merc Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Conifer, Colorado Posts: 2,429	Re: Trans trouble...need a Ford-O-Matic Guru's input. Sent you a PM.....

09-19-2010, 09:11 PM	#5
38 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,631	Re: Trans trouble...need a Ford-O-Matic Guru's input. The Merc-O and the Ford-O were the same transmission.

09-20-2010, 02:12 AM	#6
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,779	Re: Trans trouble...need a Ford-O-Matic Guru's input. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Some items from my distant past: As you no doubt know, in normal operation the trans does it's best Powerglide imitation by starting out in 2nd gear so it's like a 2 speed. If you want 1st gear you pull the lever down into low. Some Fordomatics (maybe all, don't recall) will shift to 1st while in 'D' if you give it full throttle starting out (and the linkage is adjusted right). When it slips in 'D', have you tried pulling it down into low? This releases the front band and applies the rear band. If it quits slipping, the front band is at fault. If it still slips, it's likely the forward clutch. Is reverse OK when 2nd is acting up? The whirring may be valve resonance in the valve body or pressure regulator due to sticking or worn valves or broken/weak spring. The governor enters in here, too. It's easy to take out through the access plate on the extension housing and clean/inspect for sticking. After sitting all those years, a goober could mysteriously appear and get into a valve. Is this trans air-cooled or water-cooled? If water-cooled, junk from the lines or cooler could be in the valve body. Also, there's an aluminum plug in the back end of the input shaft with oil holes that has to line up per the shop manual instructions for proper oil flow (or maybe it's in the front end of the output shaft, can't remember and too lazy to get a manual from the garage!). There's a pressure test port (left side of case, ahead of shift lever) that you can tap into with a 300 or 400 lb. gauge to see if there's a pressure drop when it slips. It could be that a cast iron sealing ring is broken so it sometimes holds pressure and sometimes not. Also, if the gauge needle is a blur, that's valve resonance. Either way, talk to your rebuilder.