In case you want to know the whole story, or an update

[P.S.]

In case someone is interested in more facts- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_G1AAkefQ

The first question is the one I'm referring to. This was recorded a few days ago, while the previous thread was still open.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Truer words at the 9:45 timeline were never spoken!!


Again, I support both sides equally in this and hope only positives result for everyone involved.

[History]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Truer words at the 9:45 timeline were never spoken!!


Again, I support both sides equally in this and hope only positives result for everyone involved.

I echo your statement.

[Lightman7]

Yeah, no one is blameless in this situation.

[GPierce]

I wholeheartedly agree with Brent’s comment.

[nkaminar]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Glad to see the world is not ending tomorrow.

[ETAModel]

I have been watching Paul's videos since 2019. I like his honesty and he doesn't appear to gloss things over. Hindsight is always 20/20, I'm sure everyone knows that. But to send the blocks back without letting his viewers know there was/is a problem wouldn't be fair to anyone. And the only way to improve is to know there's a problem in the first place, otherwise things stay static.

The internet, forums such as this, and online videos are a fickle and cruel monster, giving everyone a platform to bombast from. Unfortunately that's the world we live in.

Any industry with a product to sell has issues; Henry Ford was no exception, and he had most of his parts produced in-house, not 7000 miles away.

I met Mr. Burtz and Paul Shinn in Kerrville. I like both of them, and support them both in their efforts. But to make wild unfounded claims as Burtz did was below the belt for a professional, and he definitely made it personal for many.

As I've said before; when the time comes for a new block I want a Burtz block, and hope the QC issues are ironed out long before this time.

[JRLampl]

What was the wild unfounded claim?

[ETAModel]

That alcohol had something to do with the issues. I don't think that was fair.

[Richard Knight]

Link is not working for me

[SonicRaT]

Originally Posted by P.S.

In case someone is interested in more facts- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_G1AAkefQ

The first question is the one I'm referring to. This was recorded a few days ago, while the previous thread was still open.

I hate to say it as a fan, but I don't know that video comes across any better or does you any favors. I think the biggest unresolved issue in all of this is that the manner by which at least some of those measurements were taken and presented in the original video were not done appropriately. This undermines the credibility to the claim that there are QA issues, which you and Tina repeat here and others have taken your word on at face value -- and more than ran away with in the original video. I've not yet seen mention that those cranks were remeasured using V-blocks or by loading them into the block itself and seeing if they are still out of spec. If you fear they may be dishonest and not demonstrate your actual blocks being measured properly, it would be a trivial effort to go back and do this yourself as has been described to see if it wasn't just the result of doing it wrong in the first place. I believe that would solve a lot by itself.

Not to defend Terry's actions, but his frustration does seem understandable. As popular as you are, coming out with a video calling attention to QA issues when the methods by which those QA issues were discovered may be suspect, would undoubtedly be frustrating as people are going blindly trust what you say.

Coincidentally, it does seem ironic that the builders guide mentions instances of people falsely believing similar issues to what your builder claimed, only to then later be proven incorrect.

[CWPASADENA]

Paul,

The biggest Issue I had with the original video was how the crank was measured. Many others also had the same concern.

After seeing how the crank was measured and seeing what appeared to me as a very disorganized shop, I questioned everything the machinist said. I have been in shops that appear to be very disorganized that put out excellent work and perhaps this is the case here but often it is not.

I do not know your mechanist and do not know the reputation of his shop but to me, he came off as essentially saying you have to sink a lot of additional money into the Burtz components in order to have a decent engine. To me, your mechanist's comments appeared to be misleading and that is what got Terry all upset, however, the comment Terry made about the beer was completely uncalled for.

I think a well thought out video about what is involved in completing a Burtz engine would be of interest to a lot of Model A owners. Starting with taking it out of the box, measuring everything, doing the prep on the block and other components etc and ending up with an engine running on the test stand. Of course, this would include any issues that came up and how they were resolved. Perhaps, between you and Terry, such a video can be made.

As a professional engine builder having completed 7 of these engines, I have not found the degree of problems that were pointed out in your video.

My observations.

Chris W.

[SonicRaT]

Originally Posted by CWPASADENA

Paul,

The biggest Issue I had with the original video was how the crank was measured. Many others also had the same concern.

After seeing how the crank was measured and seeing what appeared to me as a very disorganized shop, I questioned everything the machinist said. I have been in shops that appear to be very disorganized that put out excellent work and perhaps this is the case here but often it is not.

I do not know your mechanist and do not know the reputation of his shop but to me, he came off as essentially saying you have to sink a lot of additional money into the Burtz components in order to have a decent engine. To me, your mechanist's comments appeared to be misleading and that is what got Terry all upset, however, the comment Terry made about the beer was completely uncalled for.

I think a well thought out video about what is involved in completing a Burtz engine would be of interest to a lot of Model A owners. Starting with taking it out of the box, measuring everything, doing the prep on the block and other components etc and ending up with an engine running on the test stand. Of course, this would include any issues that came up and how they were resolved. Perhaps, between you and Terry, such a video can be made.

As a professional engine builder having completed 7 of these engines, I have not found the degree of problems that were pointed out in your video.

My observations.

Chris W.

I had actually started doing that with my build. I'm a nobody with nothing on my youtube channel except some track day events, but I figured it'd be worth throwing out there. I did everything at home in the garage with the exception of having it cleaned. I recorded hours of video documenting the unboxing, inspecting everything, initial thoughts, all the way through discussing my parts choices and the various ways of building the block. I got all the way through the short block assembly and went to start editing and found my go pro nuked over half of my content from shortly after unboxing to installing the valves.

[updraught]

Yeah, the $10,000 or $8,800 was a bit of a heart stopper.

The thing is, we don't know what the acceptable tolerances are to know when there is a problem or not.

[s.e.charles]

typo

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by CWPASADENA

Paul,

The biggest Issue I had with the original video was how the crank was measured. Many others also had the same concern.

After seeing how the crank was measured and seeing what appeared to me as a very disorganized shop, I questioned everything the machinist said. I have been in shops that appear to be very disorganized that put out excellent work and perhaps this is the case here but often it is not.

I do not know your mechanist and do not know the reputation of his shop but to me, he came off as essentially saying you have to sink a lot of additional money into the Burtz components in order to have a decent engine. To me, your mechanist's comments appeared to be misleading and that is what got Terry all upset, however, the comment Terry made about the beer was completely uncalled for.

I think a well thought out video about what is involved in completing a Burtz engine would be of interest to a lot of Model A owners. Starting with taking it out of the box, measuring everything, doing the prep on the block and other components etc and ending up with an engine running on the test stand. Of course, this would include any issues that came up and how they were resolved. Perhaps, between you and Terry, such a video can be made.

As a professional engine builder having completed 7 of these engines, I have not found the degree of problems that were pointed out in your video.

My observations.

Chris W.

Chris, I am not choosing sides here, but as an engine rebuilder myself who also does crankshafts in-house, measuring something between centers is not necessarily an inaccurate way. I shared with several people that Willie could have measured between centers and then rotated the crank within the centers by 90° and then remeasured to see if the errors repeated. If they did, then there is nothing incorrect about using centers. FWIW, I actually grind my cranks between centers on my machine and use a gauge to verify.

The issue for ALL of us is we likely chose sides the minute we started watching that video. We may not want to readily admit it, but deep down we all started subliminally looking for ways to pick something apart. Whether it was the way that Paul did the intro, or the organization of Willie's shop, -or who has/or doesn't have sufficient credibility ...we all formed some sort of an opinion not knowing all of the facts and circumstances. IMHO, unfortunately there is no one that actually won in this deal. People will only believe what seems believable to them. Some will always believe that Terry's engine is perfect out of the crate no matter what other people say. Others will always believe that further refinement is necessary. To me, this will always take on the same debate as choosing the proper oil to use in a Model-A.

[jack backer]

People made a substantial investment to bring the block to market.The videographer has a large audience. It’s incumbent that any indictment be correct for the videographers basic intent is to point out flaws in the product.. to use a method that’s questionable opens the videographer to legal action.. If I were him I’d think twice before sending back the blocks,if they measure out true it’s evidence against him..

[JRLampl]

Originally Posted by P.S.

In case someone is interested in more facts- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_G1AAkefQ

The first question is the one I'm referring to. This was recorded a few days ago, while the previous thread was still open.

Paul Shinn,

I am responsible for the QA on the manufacture of the blocks and want to address your concerns.

I am asking you to publish the inspection results from Willie on this forum so they can be compared to the results from the modern shop that we will be using, and they can also be compared to the engineering drawing requirements.

On the vertical surface of the cylinder block where the timing gear inspection cover mounts, there is a serial number. This number is applied after the final inspection at the factory and is unique for every cylinder block.

For each of your 2 cylinder blocks please list the serial number and provide a measured numerical dimension for every dimension that you believe to be in error. Your measured dimensions are very important for comparison purposes, and if a photograph can be provided, it would help us understand how the measurements were made.

The crankshafts are manufactured and numbered in small batches. If a crankshaft from a batch passes inspection, the entire batch is assumed to be good.

For your 2 crankshafts, please publish the batch number along with the diameters and runout for the 5 main bearings (20 measurements).

The crankshaft drawing has a tolerance on diameter, so each of the 5 main bearings could have slightly different diameters and still be within tolerance.

The drawing also has a requirement that all 5 main bearings be concentric within a tolerance. Can you publish a number regarding the concentricity of the 5 main bearings to each other?

We are also asking you to publish any other numbers that you have regarding the connecting rod journals, the seal rubbing surface, the timing gear mounting surface, and the diameter where the front pulley mounts.

Do you have any concerns regarding the connecting rods or any other parts from us?

We take quality assurance very seriously.

We need your published numbers (facts) so we are not spending money to measure undisputed dimensions.

Thank you, John Lampl

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by jack backer

............... to use a method that’s questionable opens the videographer to legal action.. If I were him I’d think twice before sending back the blocks,if they measure out true it’s evidence against him..

I think THAT is a bit much.

C'mon

[jack backer]

You run a business, invest your hard earned money and effort into it..and you get smeared by somebody with an audience that consists of your customer base?..

[Oldbluoval]

The ultimate defense of slander is truth

[P.S.]

John- Sorry I missed this post. I'm responding on the other forum now.

Brent- You're right.

Jeff- I agree.

Jack- You're still convinced I smeared Terry and it was all calculated and done purposely. You're wrong and now just being a bully and trying to keep things stirred up. Go ahead and hate on me some more. But, what if I'm right? Will you stop bullying me? I doubt it.

Guys- I'm looking forward to working with John and Terry and sharing it with Model A people on YouTube. I look at this as a wonderful opportunity to improve my product or Terry's. Most likely both.

[todd3131]

I apologize for this question but can you tell us what is the official forum and thread you are going to be updating so we can follow the process in one place?

[CWPASADENA]

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;2162544]Chris, I am not choosing sides here, but as an engine rebuilder myself who also does crankshafts in-house, measuring something between centers is not necessarily an inaccurate way. I shared with several people that Willie could have measured between centers and then rotated the crank within the centers by 90° and then remeasured to see if the errors repeated. If they did, then there is nothing incorrect about using centers. FWIW, I actually grind my cranks between centers on my machine and use a gauge to verify.

Brent,
You are absolutely correct. you can measure a crankshaft using the centers and doing the math. However, it is much easier and much more straight forward to use "V" blocks or a similar means of being able to support and rotate the crank. In the video, I did not see any discussion about having to do any math to compensate for any errors due to the centers not being exactly on the center line of the shaft. I just saw the dial indicator. My philosophy is when doing this type of thing is use the most straightforward method you can to eliminate errors.

I would have felt better about the findings reported by the machinist if the depiction of how he was making the measurements was clearer.

Again, it came across to me that the mechanist was saying that it would take a lot of expensive re-work in order to make something out of these components. To me, this was a bit misleading, but please understand Brent, this was my take on the video and as this whole discussion has proven, there are a lot of differing opinions.

My experience has been that while the Burtz components are not perfect, they are very good and with a little effort, the result can be a very good engine.

Chris W.

[Dino's A]

I think what took me back the most was when the machinist (Willie) mentioned that
he has a customer that has a Burtz motor and is charging $8,000 to assemble it.

I get this stuff isn't cheap. and finding the right person is important, but that seems a bit
high. Am I wrong? Tell me if you wish, I can handle it!

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

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Originally Posted by Dino's A

I think what took me back the most was when the machinist (Willie) mentioned that
he has a customer that has a Burtz motor and is charging $8,000 to assemble it.

I get this stuff isn't cheap. and finding the right person is important, but that seems a bit
high. Am I wrong? Tell me if you wish, I can handle it!

Dino A's, you are not wrong.

Before we authorized production, we had the very first "New Engine Kit" sent to Bert's in Englewood, CO, and we arrived a few days later.

This was the first time that we saw the hardware, and we had a running engine in a test stand in less than 3 days in spite of having to solve a connecting rod bolt interference problem.

The "New Engine Kit" is an assembly job as there is no machining required.

To deburr and clean the parts should take no longer than a day, and to assemble a short block should take no longer than a day assuming that all parts are available.

Most of our "New Engine Kits" are being sold to individuals who have had no problems.

The following paragraph is in the latest "Builders Guide".
If you are not able to build the engine yourself, we strongly recommend that you have your new engine built by a professional mechanic that has the knowledge, experience, and equipment to ensure a product where he can guarantee his work. THIS IS NOT AN ANTIQUE ENGINE. You or your professional mechanic must be familiar with new MODERN engines. Please do not let your engine builder talk you into any cylinder block modifications that may void your warranty. To save money, you can do the de-burring of new parts and clean up the bolt-on parts which is time consuming. Several cautions in this guide are here because home builders and “Old Time Model A Engine Builders” do not have experience building a modern engine.

[wrpercival]

Originally Posted by Dino's A

I think what took me back the most was when the machinist (Willie) mentioned that he has a customer that has a Burtz motor and is charging $8,000 to assemble it.

I get this stuff isn't cheap, and finding the right person is important, but that seems a bit high. Am I wrong? Tell me if you wish, I can handle it!

I believe it takes most builders (skilled mechanics) about 2 days of focused work - let's say a full 20 hours - to complete a Burtz build. Based on the above estimate, that translates to $400 per hour.

Assuming that rate is widely accepted within the Model A community, then yes, you are wrong!

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Dino's A

I think what took me back the most was when the machinist (Willie) mentioned that
he has a customer that has a Burtz motor and is charging $8,000 to assemble it.

I get this stuff isn't cheap. and finding the right person is important, but that seems a bit
high. Am I wrong? Tell me if you wish, I can handle it!

Willie quoted that customer that price to do EVERYTHING to make it a running motor. He clearly mentioned that it included purchasing everything that did not come with the Burtz block kit like pistons, valves and springs, keepers, tappets, and other parts, oil pump, side cover, oil pan, head, gaskets, cam, dist., etc. etc. and then run the engine on the engine stand and ship it to the customer.

You assumed something incorrect.

[Kurt in NJ]

the 1934 Chiltons has a full overhaul at 20.6 hours, including babbitting the block ( not the caps), including boring cylinders, cutting valves and seats, fitting bearing

Just replacement of the block was 7 hours

A worn crankshaft can seem bent on V blocks, proven straight on centers.

I would like to have the measurements and tolerances for reference and comparing to Fords

[Dino's A]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Willie quoted that customer that price to do EVERYTHING to make it a running motor. He clearly mentioned that it included purchasing everything that did not come with the Burtz block kit like pistons, valves and springs, keepers, tappets, and other parts, oil pump, side cover, oil pan, head, gaskets, cam, dist., etc. etc. and then run the engine on the engine stand and ship it to the customer.

You assumed something incorrect.

Yes, I assumed the customer had a complete motor. He does not, and that's a different story. I stand corrected, thank You.

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Dino's A

Yes, I assumed the customer had a complete motor. He does not, and that's a different story. I stand corrected, thank You.

Glad to help, brother!

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

Most of our "New Engine Kits" are being sold to individuals who have had no problems.

I should stay out of this "discussion" as I have no investment in this, I don't have a Burtz engine, know Terry Burtz or know Paul Shinn but I have to ask. How many of these individuals even check or have the ability to check for the things Willie has concerns and just assembled their "kits" believing everything is correct.

I don't remember Willie (or Paul) saying in the video the Burtz engine will not run or have problems as is. I do recall Willie stating he was concerned of the longevity of the engine if the items he found out of spec were not adressed.

Seems to me some who are making comments here didn't even see Paul's video before he took it down.

[SonicRaT]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

I should stay out of this "discussion" as I have no investment in this, I don't have a Burtz engine, know Terry Burtz or know Paul Shinn but I have to ask. How many of these individuals even check or have the ability to check for the things Willie has concerns and just assembled their "kits" believing everything is correct.

I don't remember Willie (or Paul) saying in the video the Burtz engine will not run or have problems as is. I do recall Willie stating he was concerned of the longevity of the engine if the items he found out of spec were not adressed.

Seems to me some who are making comments here didn't even see Paul's video before he took it down.

Based on the builders guide and what I've seen on the facebook group, I'd believe the vast majority of builders, both home-grown and professional, are performing very similar measurements or at least performing other measurements that would reveal or indicate issues with the measurements performed in the video.

I built my own Burtz block and checked all of the measurements covered in the video and had no issues. The only "corrective" work I had to perform on my block was some very minor interference with the front counterweight and an oil passage along the inside of the block. I was able to file the area down slightly and made plenty of clearance with minimal effort.

If the crank was as far off as reported, there would be some significant issues from the very beginning and I'd expect it to bind up pretty badly if assembled as-is.

[jack backer]

Exactly, if the main bearing caps are torqued with .005 crankshaft journal runout it would bind on assembly.. I offered to buy the kits in question if the cranks were fitted and spun.. no response..

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by SonicRaT

I built my own Burtz block and checked all of the measurements covered in the video and had no issues. The only "corrective" work I had to perform on my block was some very minor interference with the front counterweight and an oil passage along the inside of the block. I was able to file the area down slightly and made plenty of clearance with minimal effort.

As a "Home Builder", I want to congratulate you on your build and thank you for your report about the first crankshaft counterweight hitting the cylinder block.

There are 3 variables that make every "New Engine" cylinder block unique.

1) The raw casting of every "New Engine" cylinder block is slightly different because there may be minor core shifts and the workman that grinds the parting lines may remove more or less material.

2) All machining uses the same CNC programs, but there are slight variables that can occur if the part and machine tool are not at the same temperature or if there is an unnoticed chip between machine tools at the interface between the part and machine tool.

3) The third variable is when the machinist picks a starting point on the raw casting for all machine operations. In the case of your new engine, I would guess that the starting point for the machining on your cylinder block is slightly aft of where it should be.

Thanks for following the "Builders Guide" which says to rotate the crankshaft 2 full turns whenever a part is installed to check for interference.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Please stop posting on this thread.

We agree with Paul Shinn that his 2 "New Engine Kits" may be out of tolerance and have problems.

Please give Paul a break and allow him and his engine builder, Willie, to measure the dimensions in question and post them on this forum.

I will respond with drawing dimensions.

If the measured and drawing dimensions are different, we will have the dimensions measured by a modern machine shop and post the results here.

[SonicRaT]

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

As a "Home Builder", I want to congratulate you on your build and thank you for your report about the first crankshaft counterweight hitting the cylinder block.

There are 3 variables that make every "New Engine" cylinder block unique.

1) The raw casting of every "New Engine" cylinder block is slightly different because there may be minor core shifts and the workman that grinds the parting lines may remove more or less material.

2) All machining uses the same CNC programs, but there are slight variables that can occur if the part and machine tool are not at the same temperature or if there is an unnoticed chip between machine tools at the interface between the part and machine tool.

3) The third variable is when the machinist picks a starting point on the raw casting for all machine operations. In the case of your new engine, I would guess that the starting point for the machining on your cylinder block is slightly aft of where it should be.

Thanks for following the "Builders Guide" which says to rotate the crankshaft 2 full turns whenever a part is installed to check for interference.

Hello Terry! Thanks for all of your time and what I consider an absolutely amazing product. I'd been quietly following your endeavor for quite some time and can't fathom the patience and dedication it must have taken to see it through.

The interference I had was very minimal. The crank would actually rotate freely, but you could faintly hear a metal-to-metal brushing noise in one particular spot of rotation. I tracked it down to the location pointed out in the picture below. It took minimal effort to file the area down slightly which gave the counterweight plenty of clearance.

This is not my picture, I believe it is Leonard's that I swiped from the facebook group, but used for reference to the area I filed:



I figured that since the area is not a machined surface that it was likely just some variation from the casting process. The builders guide mentions these tight clearances and, as you mention, to double check as you go, so I was on the lookout for any possible issues and it was extremely easy to remedy.

Ironically enough, I had more issues with a batch of bad Hasting's 665 rings. Thankfully I ordered a backup set in the event I snapped a ring installing them. One entire set was all 0.010" off -- then I opened the backup set and they were all where they should be.

I had actually filmed and documented my entire build from the very first unboxing all the way through the first startups in hopes of editing and putting out a video to encourage more people to take on building their own, but unfortunately my GoPro decided to nuke over half of my footage...

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

Please stop posting on this thread.

Ooops.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

Please stop posting on this thread.

Uh, okay…. Which is the “real” thread we’re supposed to use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shew01]

Originally Posted by shew01

Uh, okay…. Which is the “real” thread we’re supposed to use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m asking because I’m genuinely interested in the outcome of this debate. When it comes time for engine work on my car, I’m considering a Burtz block instead of a rebuild on my original block. I’d like to know where the latest information is/will be posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by shew01

I’m asking because I’m genuinely interested in the outcome of this debate. When it comes time for engine work on my car, I’m considering a Burtz block instead of a rebuild on my original block. I’d like to know where the latest information is/will be posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good question... I would like to know too.

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by shew01

I’m asking because I’m genuinely interested in the outcome of this debate. When it comes time for engine work on my car, I’m considering a Burtz block instead of a rebuild on my original block. I’d like to know where the latest information is/will be posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The good news is, there is no debate. Terry and I are going to work together on a project. I will leave the reporting here to Mr. Burtz since he is more knowledgable on the subject and can likely interpret what my machinist says better than I can.

Now, I'm keeping an eye on messages on the other forum. The bullies and haters on this forum are detrimental to my positivity.

[todd3131]

Paul,
I hope the dialogue between you two has improved to the point that you can build this motor and make a video of it, really want to see one so I know what to ask my engine builder.
Onward and upward.

[JRShaw]

Originally Posted by JRLampl

Paul Shinn,

I am responsible for the QA on the manufacture of the blocks and want to address your concerns.

I am asking you to publish the inspection results from Willie on this forum so they can be compared to the results from the modern shop that we will be using, and they can also be compared to the engineering drawing requirements.

On the vertical surface of the cylinder block where the timing gear inspection cover mounts, there is a serial number. This number is applied after the final inspection at the factory and is unique for every cylinder block.

For each of your 2 cylinder blocks please list the serial number and provide a measured numerical dimension for every dimension that you believe to be in error. Your measured dimensions are very important for comparison purposes, and if a photograph can be provided, it would help us understand how the measurements were made.

The crankshafts are manufactured and numbered in small batches. If a crankshaft from a batch passes inspection, the entire batch is assumed to be good.

For your 2 crankshafts, please publish the batch number along with the diameters and runout for the 5 main bearings (20 measurements).

The crankshaft drawing has a tolerance on diameter, so each of the 5 main bearings could have slightly different diameters and still be within tolerance.

The drawing also has a requirement that all 5 main bearings be concentric within a tolerance. Can you publish a number regarding the concentricity of the 5 main bearings to each other?

We are also asking you to publish any other numbers that you have regarding the connecting rod journals, the seal rubbing surface, the timing gear mounting surface, and the diameter where the front pulley mounts.

Do you have any concerns regarding the connecting rods or any other parts from us?

We take quality assurance very seriously.

We need your published numbers (facts) so we are not spending money to measure undisputed dimensions.

Thank you, John Lampl

All of John's thoughts as well as suggestions seem to be presented in a very logical, rational, as well as very thorough manner. This is an opinion of over thirty years of engineering experience, with a machine design background in addition to many years of product design and development. Please give John and Terry a chance without uneducated comments. Thank You.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Now, I'm keeping an eye on messages on the other forum. The bullies and haters on this forum are detrimental to my positivity.

I hope all forums are kept up to date. I’ve never seen a forum that covers every perspective equally and without bias. That is why we have two national clubs after all, two political parties,

[The Master Cylinder]

I'll have a Corona to that!

[shew01]

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Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

Good question... I would like to know too.

Maybe this is it. Who knows?

https://www.vintage<other ford site>...tched-this-yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jack backer]

Bullies and haters are anyone who disagrees with your methods or point of view? That pointing out the risk you assumed with a video you shared on the internet is grounds for childish name calling?

[sdpet56]

Originally Posted by jack backer

Bullies and haters are anyone who disagrees with your methods or point of view? That pointing out the risk you assumed with a video you shared on the internet is grounds for childish name calling?

Exactly, ask anyone who has been through a divorce!

[CWPASADENA]

Folks,

At this point, we are all just speculating.

I vote that we put this whole thing on hold until Paul and Terry can jointly come up with and then post the critical dimensions for this particular engine kit. We can then see the results and comment from there.

My opinion,

Chris W.

[TerryH]

Amen…..enough side comments until they work through it….

[Laredo]

Originally Posted by CWPASADENA

Folks,

At this point, we are all just speculating.

I vote that we put this whole thing on hold until Paul and Terry can jointly come up with and then post the critical dimensions for this particular engine kit. We can then see the results and comment from there.

My opinion,

Chris W.

X 1,000,000!!! This thread should be locked. The situation has progressed to a productive, collaborative, and cordial place between Paul and Terry, and no amount of opinions flying around in the meantime can produce anything useful until the actual data and results are posted. Some on here seem intent on trying to keep the drama stirred up, and that’s getting old. Fast. Terry has already requested people not to post on this thread anymore until the results come. IMO, the moderator should lock this.

[Ryan]

Bullies and haters... that's disappointing. Please report this when you see it.

I have very little tolerance for that kind of thing here.