302 motor ignition point setting?

[poolplayer1]

The points on my 55 wagon quit over the weekend so wagon would not start. It would crank but not start. Power was ok to the coil and also getting to the points ok. So I bought some new points. I cannot remember the point gauge setting on this 302 engine. is it .019 or .021? Does anyone have a tune-up chart for the 1968 ford LTD that I can see and copy for future refference?Thanks for your help.

[KULTULZ]

See if this helps -

https://www.tpocr.com/ford1.html

[poolplayer1]

Thank you very much KULTULZ for your help. This is what I needed to finish my job and also to keep for future reference. I noticed where it says that for standard tranny, its .021 but for a automatic tranny, it says .017. Mine is a automatic. Sorry for this question but what does IMCO system mean? It mentions this for a ford 302.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by poolplayer1

Sorry for this question but what does IMCO system mean? It mentions this for a ford 302.

Why sorry? How else will you learn?

- IMCO -

Vacuum advance/retard (also known as dual-advance) was an integral part of the IMCO (Improved Combustion) emission control system launched in 1968. IMCO works on a principle of applying manifold vacuum to both sides of the advance/retard unit depending upon vehicle operation at the time.

Under acceleration, you advance the spark. On deceleration, you retard the spark to reduce hydrocarbon emissions (unburned fuel). The IMCO system is controlled by a thermal vacuum switch located at the thermostat housing. As coolant temperature warms, the vacuum switch vectors vacuum appropriately to control emissions.

INFO SOURCE - https://www.diyford.com/ford-small-b...g-interchange/

If you are familiar with the FYB, a similar system was used on the 1956 V8 using a DUAL DIAPHRAGM VACUUM CANISTER.

[Gene F]

My 57 has tripple Holley 94s. The vacuum is straight off the intake. Would the 56 distributors vacuum advance unit work on my car? I'd like to get an advance curve. You can imagine what I have now...

[poolplayer1]

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Ok, got it. Thanks again for your help and indeed I have learned quite a bit from your knowledge and of other great people here at this forum. I am very grateful that we have this group.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by poolplayer1

Ok, got it. Thanks again for your help and indeed I have learned quite a bit from your knowledge and of other great people here at this forum. I am very grateful that we have this group.

Yes. I was a member of streetrodding dot com, but someone hacked the site, and when they put everything back together the member board was closed... It's a giant pain some times finding some advice on a topic that is not exactly car specific.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

My 57 has tripple Holley 94s. The vacuum is straight off the intake. Would the 56 distributors vacuum advance unit work on my car? I'd like to get an advance curve. You can imagine what I have now...

The 1956 DUAL DIAPHRAGM CANNISTER is for LOAD-O-MATIC.

You should have a DUAL ADVANCE DIST in your '57 (hopefully). If operating off full manifold vacuum, the advance (vacuum) will be operating @ idle and to which point the manifold vacuum drops off.

Unless the DIST is curved for that, it should be on ported vacuum (IMO).

[Gene F]

No port(s) on the Holley 94s. Therein lies the reason why I'd like to find a better solution.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

No port(s) on the Holler 94s. Therein lies the reason why I'd like to find a better solution.

OK, I see what you are asking.

This 3X2 install is on a 57 FORD FYB w H94's and hopefully a 1957/ DUAL ADVANCE DISTRIBUTOR?

Can you show a photo of the install?

Read Thru This TECH ARTICLE And Get Back - https://www.eatonbalancing.com/2010/...-distributors/

[Gene F]

Here ya go. Any advice is nice. It has the same dist the car left the factory with in 1957. Been thinking about at least putting an Accell electronic kit in the thing.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Here ya go. Any advice is nice. It has the same dist the car left the factory with in 1957. Been thinking about at least putting an Accell electronic kit in the thing.

I think we have been through this before. We had a minor difference in opinion on ACCEL over PERTRONIX II IGN?

Anywho, that is an OFFY INTAKE correct? The 94's, all three have idle circuits? Are they setup as progressive or all in at once?

The modification (vacuum signal) to the carb would only have to be done to the center carb for the ported vacuum signal.

If stock DIST, it will be a one piece breaker plate which is getting difficult to find along with the vacuum advance canister. Make sure they work freely before going too far into it (test with vacuum pump to check free movement).

I bet that is a bear on the street on manifold vacuum signal only. Do they (carbs) have the LOAD-O-MATIC SPARK CONTROL VALVE(s) in them?

Did the TECH ARTICLE help?

What is that just at the fuel log, a pressure regulator or filter?

[Gene F]

It is an offy intake. The front and back carbs have no idle circuits. They are not glued shut, those carbs never had the circuits to begin with. No power valves either.

The Dist is from 1957, and has never been changed in any way. So the 1957 dist does not have flyweights? I think the vac adv is sticking. When I drive the car on the highway, if you play around with the throttle the fuel economy changes dramatically.

The linkage is progressive. Normal driving is all on the primary carb.

Fuel log, pressure regulator, and filter - yes to all three.

[paul2748]

Isn't this usually the case when "playing around with the throttle" ? Faster you go, the less MPG and off and on the throttle is not the most gas saving method of running.

You might want to adjust the end carbs as they may be coming on board too early.

Originally Posted by Gene F

When I drive the car on the highway, if you play around with the throttle the fuel economy changes dramatically.

.

[KULTULZ]

So the 1957 dist does not have flyweights?

I think the vac adv is sticking. When I drive the car on the highway, if you play around with the throttle the fuel economy changes dramatically.

Beginning in 1957, FORD went to a DUAL ADVANCE DIST design (mechanical -fly weights- and vacuum advance).

Do you have a handheld vacuum pump? Remove the DIST CAP and attach the pump to the vacuum advance and see if the breaker plate advances and returns correctly. Also verify the canister holds vacuum.

If the breaker plate is sticking it will give you that sensation. Same if the DUAL ADVANCE DIST is actuated by a LOM SPARK CONTROL VALVE.

Throttle return spring(s) have enough tension? Throttle shafts and linkages move freely?

[Gene F]

I do have a hand held vac gun. Yes the throttle linkages works great. It ougt too, I spent enough time on it! LOL

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

I do have a hand held vac gun. Yes the throttle linkages works great. It ougt too, I spent enough time on it! LOL

So you understand how to check the canister/breaker plate movement?

The install looks really nice. I am still confused (as usual) as to exactly what is at the entry to the fuel log. Is it a pressure regulator and the filter is located somewhere else? Just wondering.

Did the TECH ARTICLE on how to modify the carb helpful? It does have a SPARK CONTROL VALVE on the carb body?

[KULTULZ]

It has the same dist the car left the factory with in 1957. Been thinking about at least putting an Accell electronic kit in the thing.

The addition of ELECTRONIC IGN is going to make a big difference. It is going to give a longer and hotter burn. You can open the plug gaps and run a richer fuel trim.

Now it only intensifies the spark, all advance will still be mechanical.

[Gene F]

The article...I do not recall my carb throttle plate having that boss to be tapped I will have to go to the barn and look for that. The modification may be the remidy. Even if I have to send my carb out to have that done. Heck I may attempt it. I am pretty handy, and PATIENT. I have a small drill press, and can make up a guide plate to drill that little hole in the pocket of that existing tubular cavity.

Yes I understand how to check that breaker plate via vacuum advance with my vacuum gun. Guess I always figured that the plate would not move without the engine running. You sound way more knowlegable that me with these, so I can do it as you have suggested.

The fuel travels up the hard line from the fuel pump (covered with wire loom wrap - just because I wonder if I should try to keep the heat off of the line). Then through the el-cheapo regulator, 90 degree fitting shoots the fuel over in to the fuel log. The filter is a new cartridge in the bottom of the fuel pump. It's one of those carter dual function ones. Although I have electric wipers.

My car runs good, I just feel like it needs some fine tuning. Perfecting the ignition a little seems to me like just the ticket. I sure would like to put a set of Cragar S/S on the thing, and a 5-speed. However, I just hate the thought of another big project. And a transmission swap would no doubt mean a lot of time underneath the thing.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

The article...I do not recall my carb throttle plate having that boss to be tapped I will have to go to the barn and look for that. The modification may be the remidy. Even if I have to send my carb out to have that done. Heck I may attempt it. I am pretty handy, and PATIENT. I have a small drill press, and can make up a guide plate to drill that little hole in the pocket of that existing tubular cavity.

There is an ILL below that shows the location of the SPARK CONTROL VALVE (9B572). If it shows large enough, you will know where to look. If no valve, the CARB is not LOM or has been modified.

The truth is I have no experience with much before 1957. During the period I grew up ... ... fooling with cars was at the introduction of the MUSCLE CAR era. My first car was 60 SUNLINER with a 352-4V. I remember my first look at a H4000 as I reeled in horror. Usually, any car before that was modified to carry an FE.

So, unless BETTER CALL MY PAL SAL reads this and can step in, I will be of little help with that carb(s). What little knowledge I have with LOM is helping those with the stock system in a period driver/restoration.

Yes I understand how to check that breaker plate via vacuum advance with my vacuum gun. Guess I always figured that the plate would not move without the engine running. You sound way more knowlegable that me with these, so I can do it as you have suggested.

Don't let sounds fool 'ya ...

Have you thought of seeing how much vacuum is generated from the center carb with a vacuum gauge? That will tell you quickly what system you have and whether ported or manifold vacuum.

Check to see if the plate moves freely and returns to it's original position. If it sticks anywhere in movement, the DIST needs to go onto the forensics table.

The fuel travels up the hard line from the fuel pump (covered with wire loom wrap - just because I wonder if I should try to keep the heat off of the line). Then through the el-cheapo regulator, 90 degree fitting shoots the fuel over in to the fuel log. The filter is a new cartridge in the bottom of the fuel pump. It's one of those carter dual function ones. Although I have electric wipers.

YES! By all means especially with ethanol laced gasoline.

My car runs good, I just feel like it needs some fine tuning. Perfecting the ignition a little seems to me like just the ticket. I sure would like to put a set of Cragar S/S on the thing, and a 5-speed. However, I just hate the thought of another big project. And a transmission swap would no doubt mean a lot of time underneath the thing.

OH! - Short For I Forgot

When you look at the carb(s) copy any ID casting marks/stamping off of them to hopefully positively identify what you have.

[Gene F]

I will look for 9B572 in the throttle plate, or even in the main body.

Who is the hot-rod carb guy in Florida? Seems I have bought parts from him before. Maybe he has what I am looking for if my primary carb is not compatable for this modification to get ported vac to my dist instad of manifold vac.

"Have you thought of seeing how much vacuum is generated from the center carb with a vacuum gauge? That will tell you quickly what system you have and whether ported or manifold vacuum." - how much do I need? I suspect that with the additional two carbs rtaht vac is low. Just seems to me the more devices ya have the more chances for very small amounts of leakage - and they add up. At idle? At say 2,000 rpm in the garage?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

I will look for 9B572 in the throttle plate, or even in the main body.

Who is the hot-rod carb guy in Florida? Seems I have bought parts from him before. Maybe he has what I am looking for if my primary carb is not compatable for this modification to get ported vac to my dist instad of manifold vac.

"Have you thought of seeing how much vacuum is generated from the center carb with a vacuum gauge? That will tell you quickly what system you have and whether ported or manifold vacuum." - how much do I need? I suspect that with the additional two carbs rtaht vac is low. Just seems to me the more devices ya have the more chances for very small amounts of leakage - and they add up. At idle? At say 2,000 rpm in the garage?

This is who I was referring to - https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/member.php?u=5934

He is the CARB GURU here. Try to PM him and see if he can identify the carb(s).

Need to know if there is any vacuum source off the center carb. I know you said you have the vacuum signal straight off the intake now. The outboard carbs should not cause loss of manifold vacuum if the throttle blades are adjusted closed @ idle as they have no idle circuits being dumpers.

What is your curb idle RPM now?

Then we can go further.

[KULTULZ]

Here is an older post by Sal. The discussion was fuel pump quality. It may give you an information source -

Originally Posted by scicala

Charlie Schwendler is the man you're thinking about.

He is no loger a member of the Ford Barn (was charlie ny), but I believe he still looks at the posts. Can't reply though. He also does carburetors. Mainly Holley 94's and Strombergs His info is:

Charlie Schwendler
(716) 662-9159
[email protected]

Sal

[Gene F]

Well after looking at my carb(s) they are not candidates for this modification.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Well after looking at my carb(s) they are not candidates for this modification.

I was afraid of that. Did you notice any ID marks to help identify them?

Where did you find the setup?

[Gene F]

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I used the photos on the how-to-(link) you povided. I found another core that has the body I need on e-bay, and made the guy an offer. FYI, I have a bucket of Chem-Dip, if you know what that is.

I can live with what I have, just thinking if I can easily make it better why not...

[KULTULZ]

I found another core that has the body I need on e-bay, and made the guy an offer.

It is a LOM carb w/ SPARK CONTROL VALVE (or with a vacuum port above the throttle blades)? Can you post a photo (no EvilBay source info needed).

I think what you have is some period specialty carbs made specifically for progressive setup (end dumps) for that period. Have to have any ID INFO you come across off the carb bodies.

Now this is very important, what is the curb idle speed on the setup now?

Who is the hot-rod carb guy in Florida? Seems I have bought parts from him before. Maybe he has what I am looking for if my primary carb is not compatable for this modification to get ported vac to my dist instad of manifold vac.

I wish I knew. I know I have read references to him before.

READ THRU HERE - https://www.carburetor-parts.com/

[cousinjd]

CowboyJohnsAutoParts.com Webster Florida has provided me with nos fuel pump. Worth a try. Jim

[KULTULZ]

Here 'Ya Go -

Charlie Price -

https://vintagespeed.com/

Maybe he can ID and help before spending money.

[Gene F]

Yes, vintage speed. I got my setup from Dicks Hot Rod Carbs. well most of it...
Number on carbs where?

If I had it to do over again I would have bought all my stuff from Vintage Speed.

[KULTULZ]

Number on carbs where?

Go ahead and call Charlie as he can help you better than I can.

Please get back when he ID's the CARBS. I am curious as to exactly what you have. You want a ported vacuum signal to the DIST.