1948 Mercury M47 - Engine casting No. C1BA

[waynet]

Flathead historians:


Our '48 Mercury M47 pickup has an engine casting No. C1BA. Should it not be a C8BA engine, if it were the original engine, of the same manufacturing year as the pickup?

[rotorwrench]

In the US, the 1BA prefix was used inside the valve chamber as an identifier. Valves were changed from plain to rotator type in 1951 but it really didn't change the block. Older style valves can be used as long as the correct assembly components are utilized. The engine was changed for the automatic transmission in 1951 as well and that was simply a change to the crankshafts so the torque converter would fit. The divorced choke and the dashpot were added to some applications for the automatic transmission. This may relate to cylinder heads and intake manifolds for these cars.

The C1BA is the Windsor version of the 1BA that came out in early 1951. It's not unusual to find a replacement engine in these old vehicles.

[waynet]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

In the US, the 1BA prefix was used inside the valve chamber as an identifier. Valves were changed from plain to rotator type in 1951 but it really didn't change the block. Older style valves can be used as long ass the correct assembly component are utilized. The engine was changed for the automatic transmission in 1951 as well and that was simply a change to the crankshafts so the torque converter would fit. The divorced choke and the dashpot were added to some applications for the automatic transmission. This may relate to cylinder heads and intake manifolds for these cars.

The C1BA is the Windsor version of the 1BA that came out in early 1951. It's not unusual to find a replacement engine in these old vehicles.

So would our C1BA engine originally be installed in a car rather than a pickup? The heads are iron and have "8BA" & "Made in Canada" cast on them.

[rotorwrench]

Canada did things there own way so I hesitate to write anything in stone for the Canadian made vehicles. I'm still learning new things about their production all the time. Since Ford didn't make any further changes to the block after 1951, I have to assume that this was the block used until the end of flathead production. Ford of Canada continued production of the flathead engines through the 1954 model year so it lived on one more year longer than Ford US. Pickups made here in the US had 8RT heads and all the truck oil pan and clutch components for those applications but the block was still the same basic one even if it was a 1BA. Ford US didn't put an automatic transmission in a truck until 1953 and as far as I know, it was only in the F100 pickup.

[kirkf]

In my experience Ford Canada would have used whatever parts they had available that day, and as mentioned above, engines were regularly swapped out and/or rebuilt by shops that would mix and match any parts they saw fit.

Kirk

[rotorwrench]

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The C1BA didn't exist yet in 1948 so someone else likely initiated that change.

[Newc]

Hi; I restored an original 67 K mile ['48] M-47. mfgrd in Nov of '47 and it had it's original 7RA eng. -[59ab type] . Province of BC Gov vehicle, all dates glass ect were Nov '47. so there are some oddities out there. Newc

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by waynet

Flathead historians:


Our '48 Mercury M47 pickup has an engine casting No. C1BA. Should it not be a C8BA engine, if it were the original engine, of the same manufacturing year as the pickup?

At least two things ya gotta remember. Ford did NOT make 'CAR' blocks, and then 'TRUCK' blocks during any production year....they made BLOCKS, especially during the last iteration of these flathead engines through 1954 in Canada. The BLOCKS are the basic structure around which these engines were assembled for the different types of vehicles. Heads, pistons, crankshafts, camshafts, oil pans & other bolt-on appendages are what differentiated CAR engine assemblies from TRUCK or even BUS "engines". So don't forget how many times that a block which was cast 65 to 70 years ago could have been rebuilt or modified in that time span with varied and mixed peripheral parts. On top of that, there is no telling how many times your particular vehicle had it's engine changed for one reason or another. With FORD engines after the Model "A" days, it CAN be very difficult (if not sometimes impossible) to tell the exact year that a particular engine was first put into service. DD
.

[waynet]

It seems, judging by your posts, that it is very unlikely that our current engine is the original engine. Thanks for responding.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by waynet

It seems, judging by your posts, that it is very unlikely that our current engine is the original engine. Thanks for responding.

Not only is it "unlikely", but the truth of the matter is that your particular "C1BA" block could have been cast nearly SIX years after your 1948 vehicle was assembled. You should understand that "C1BA" only denotes the date of the design exercise. Those same blocks were likely used starting possibly in 1951, then on through the end of 1954 production. DD
.

[waynet]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Not only is it "unlikely", but the truth of the matter is that your particular "C1BA" block could have been cast nearly SIX years after your 1948 vehicle was assembled. You should understand that "C1BA" only denotes the date of the design exercise. Those same blocks were likely used starting possibly in 1951, then on through the end of 1954 production. DD
.

Good point. So there were no "C2BA" etc?