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11-02-2021, 11:16 PM | #1 |
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Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
I have an opportunity to buy a completely rebuilt engine that has been sitting sealed up for over 30 years. I personally knew the ace Model A mechanic that rebuilt it as our family Fords engine was rebuilt by him in 1978. A very well known and respected Model A Ford mechanic his entire life.
Our “A” has been trouble free for all these years and has nearly 25,000 miles on it all without removing a single shim or any other major issue. Question is: what is the current value for a fresh engine such as this? The engine is free in rotation following a shot of oil down each cylinder. It was turned just 1/2 revolution to protect all the “new” babbit etc. Clean as a shiny new penny under the scope. I value this community and the sage advice offered here. I don’t need an engine but don’t want to pass up a proven product from the past..... Thanks in advance for your input. ✔️ Here it is all these years later..... Last edited by SHEC; 11-02-2021 at 11:47 PM. |
11-02-2021, 11:23 PM | #2 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
What price is it being offered at?
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11-02-2021, 11:40 PM | #3 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
No $ number given as yet. I was made aware of the engine and it’s been offered for sale to me first. I can tell you the 1970’s pricing - he averaged around $490.00. for good friends.
His work included taking weight off the flywheel, providing an oil pressure line to the center main and never went over .30 bore.... and a proven jobber for all the fresh babbit. Last edited by SHEC; 11-02-2021 at 11:47 PM. |
11-03-2021, 12:25 AM | #4 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
It would cost +- $ 3500 to have a good rebuild done today, but then there would be fresh work and a warrantee. I would ask what the seller wants for it. I am one that doesn't make offers unprompted. If I had stumbled accross it, and it wasn't a friend selling it, I would start at around $900
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11-03-2021, 12:35 AM | #5 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time - SHEC |
11-03-2021, 12:46 AM | #6 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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Sitting as a “dry”engine, that is my concern. We did rotate it wet as noted.... 1/2 turn. It will be me making up my mind for something I don’t need right now but if the number is right, perhaps it would be worth a shot at for a decent number. But what is that number .....? Thank you for the input, much appreciated! |
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11-03-2021, 12:47 AM | #7 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-03-2021, 03:55 AM | #8 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
2000. is a fair number- I sell old runners for 800.
do you want the "steal" or be fair? sounds like this motor is better then the 4k rebuilds out there now. |
11-03-2021, 06:44 AM | #9 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Not enough information.
Sorry, but the reality is without knowing what was done to the engine you do not know the value. Some builders did cheap work that worked well enough to putt putt around and others that had some clue. Which one did the work on this engine. Did they use lead babbitt or close to correct tin based babbitt. Lead babbitt is real easy to pour. Was everything balanced, that is did the rods, crank a flywheel get balanced? Were the main ground on center so the flywheel is in the correct place? Was a good used cam and nice used valves used? Since it was not run and it sat the surfaces inside would have had condensation and the pan needs to come off for an inspection and I guess the valve cover. So what I am getting at is you are taking a risk in buying this engine. How much of a risk are you willing to take? This all really becomes an exercise between your wallet and your risk level. If you want to assume it was built like shops today with it all balanced and such then you compare it to a $6000 engine. Personally my experience from taking apart many engines and hearing the problems of 'rebuilt' engines I make assumption that anything could be wrong and give a low price unless I have proof of better construction. I would NOT pay anything over junk pricing without at least taking the pan off and inspecting it. I would also want to see the valve cover side too. Plus look inside the spark holes. |
11-03-2021, 07:04 AM | #10 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart.
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11-03-2021, 07:30 AM | #11 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart.
if thats the case, then every restored A out there that hasnt been run in 20 yrs needs to be torn apart. I dont agree............ |
11-03-2021, 07:46 AM | #12 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
He didn't say he couldn't turn it more than a half round, ha said that he ONLY turned it half a round. That may have been a cautious move on his part to make sure he didn't damage. Your point is valid if that's all he could make it turn. I need this engine if you don't buy OP.
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11-03-2021, 08:01 AM | #13 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
SHEC said that it was rebuilt by a reputable mechanic and that he rebuilt the engine he is driving now that has been reliable. So there is good assumption that it is a good engine. I would go with Ronn and offer $2,000, but try and get a price from the seller first.
My preference would be to at least take the pan off to peek inside to see if any rust has moved in. If not that then use a borescope to peek inside. Also peek inside the cylinders for the same reason. There is no need to completely disassemble the engine.
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11-03-2021, 10:44 AM | #14 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
The seller's price depends on how bad he wants to get rid of it. Your offer depends on how much you trust the rebuilder. There are many horror stories of beautifully painted, restored Model As and engines only to be revealed later that they are expensive nightmares. If this engine is as advertised, a fair price would be $3,500 but since you are taking a risk, I would say a fair offer would be $1,200 to $1,750.
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11-03-2021, 11:09 AM | #15 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Ask the builder what he used to prevent rusting or pre-lube everything, if any doubt, I would pull the pan, "just in case". Just before starting the engine, remove the dist, pour 1 quart of oil down the hole, re-insert the dist and start the engine. This gets oil to the mains. Everything else will get oil immediately upon start-up because the rods throw a mist that you wouldn't believe.
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11-03-2021, 11:37 AM | #16 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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The oil checklist you noted is exactly what he told me to do and I will most certainly pull the pan if I close a deal on it. Thanks to all for your input... much appreciated ✔️🇺🇸 |
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11-03-2021, 11:47 AM | #17 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
So noted....
A fair price is all I ask. You have provided solid and current numbers✔️ Thanks |
11-03-2021, 11:50 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-03-2021, 11:54 AM | #19 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
[QUOTE=ronn;2072752]It needs to come apart!. You know that that's why you only turned it 1/2 turn. All of the exposed machined parts have rusted, unless everything was coated with steam clylinder oil, it needs to come apart.
I have a Model A that sat from the end of WWII until 1980. It started right up and still is running strong today with nothing added but a new head, rebuilt distributor, leak less water pump, clutch, pressure plate, and new timing gear. Oh! Also new Zenith carburetor. No smoke, no knocks or valve noise, compression in mid 60’s. It’s like going to the casino, put your money down and see what happens. You could be a winner, but you have to bet to know. With what you are saying, I would take a chance. Good luck. |
11-03-2021, 11:58 AM | #20 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
It might be interesting to know just why it has sat so long. I would want to know what the seller is looking to get for it. If it is a kid that just put a 350 CI in the car and doesn't want to trip over this engine I would start as low as possible and watch his face for clues since he won't give any other indications of worth to him.
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11-03-2021, 11:58 AM | #21 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-03-2021, 12:12 PM | #22 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
[QUOTE=WHN;2072876]
Quote:
“You pay your money and take your chances” . I hope to get back over there soon maybe tomorrow and see what he really needs for it. He bought it as a back up from a solid reputable builder. We both still have this gentleman’s engines running in our Fords. Mine has been solid since ‘78. |
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11-03-2021, 12:17 PM | #23 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-03-2021, 12:30 PM | #24 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
If you have the loose change I would buy it for insurance . Its worth what ever makes you feel good . Happy Motoring
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11-03-2021, 12:44 PM | #25 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
$500 would cover the original cost.
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11-03-2021, 01:00 PM | #26 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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Great pic of your A Model Ford . |
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11-03-2021, 01:16 PM | #27 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-03-2021, 05:07 PM | #28 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
I bought a rebabbitted and rebuilt short block engine a few years ago at a swap meet. I have not yet, but plan on pulling it apart and checking tolerances etc. Without knowing who did the work or anything else, I'd plan on checking everything before putting it in service.
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11-03-2021, 06:46 PM | #29 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
if it is completely rebuilt including babbet that is an expensive rebuild.
but you need to know what has been done inside there. some will say rebuild and it has only seen a can of spray paint. I'm doing mine rite now and its going to be north of $5500cnd
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11-03-2021, 07:15 PM | #30 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Short answer...Take it...hurry...do it now
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11-03-2021, 10:11 PM | #31 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Thankfully I personally knew the builder and we are still using the engine he rebuilt for our car back in ‘78. I saw him working personally work on various engines and many times assisted in some ways. He was a true professional and a great friend/mentor.
So since I don’t need it at this point the engine would continue to sit on the stand as it has for so long. It was purchased by the present owner for a project never completed. ...... My thoughts: buy it, pull the pan and make certain all is still well (it checks out visually and also by interior scope). Then button it up and perhaps ( here is where I could use input) fill it with some fresh oil and turn it over. Keeping it wet on the interior to include the quart going s down the distributor hole for the bearings. Good idea? |
11-03-2021, 10:15 PM | #32 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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All the best ✔️ |
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11-03-2021, 10:50 PM | #33 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-06-2021, 11:30 PM | #34 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Sorry for leaving this story for a bit but now I’m back. Sometimes life gets in the way of our A’s.
An update on the engine and it is good I believe. I was quoted a price $1500.00 and this price is very realistic compared to a one time asking price of $3900.00. I was told he offered it to others at the higher price and obviously no takers so it must be time to let it go I suppose. I personally have been downsizing some of my goods, but this engine is different and may need to come over to my place. If I do so would it be wise to get it wet with fresh oil and leave it sealed while also turning it over as a maintenance procedure? I value your input... My thanks in advance. ✔️🇺🇸 |
11-07-2021, 07:31 AM | #35 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Here is an idea. It is just an idea. I occasionally see cars for sale that are in good shape but have a broken engine or a missing engine. Buy the engine and the car and put 2 and 2 together. I know you are downsizing but maybe one of the grandkids would help and end up with the car. Or sell it. I think in this case the sum total would be worth more than the parts.
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11-07-2021, 08:21 AM | #36 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
1500 is a great deal. buy it and consider yourself lucky!
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11-07-2021, 09:02 AM | #37 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
I stored my engine (unintentionally) from 1980 when it was overhauled by a well known shop until restoration neared completion in 1998. In an enclosed residential garage. No disassembly, and it has had no issues... except
Mice got into the water jacket through the opening in the head just like yours has. The head was full of seeds and hickory nuts. It isn't just rust you need to worry about. My head had to come off and the mess got cleaned out, but I suspect some crud is still in there, it runs warmer than other As in the summer. It isn't just corrosion and build quality you need to worry about. Last edited by Mister Moose; 11-07-2021 at 09:13 AM. |
11-07-2021, 02:44 PM | #38 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
$1500 seems like a good deal to me too, knowing what you do about the builder. I bought a brand new engine, NOT model A, that had been sitting for 40 years in a crate. I just overfilled the crankcase with oil until it was completely full, put some lube in the cylinders, then carefully and slowly turned it over by hand until I felt it was in everything, then drained down to normal level and started. Not sure if it was necessary but made me feel better.
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11-07-2021, 05:40 PM | #39 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-07-2021, 06:23 PM | #40 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Offer them $500. When you need it, pull the dist and pour a quart down that hole (this takes a while). Tope off the oil (actually change it) Pull the plugss, put a tablespoon of ATF down there. Spin the starter a few reviolutions. Next day put the plus in, and the distribustor. Fire it up and enjoy it.
Don't over complicate it, just enjoy it. |
11-07-2021, 08:28 PM | #41 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-08-2021, 02:35 AM | #42 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Thanks to all that were kind enough to respond. Agreed the price is more than fair as I did know the builder and we are still enjoying the fruits of his work 43 years later.
With what many have said, it sounds as though it would be wise to pull the pan and double check the interior in person (beyond the scopes limits), then seal it up to ensure no critters can do any damage. Smart and cautious ... I like that. When and if I need it, others have stated that with good preparation the engine should be good to go. Very grateful to have this site and the experience that goes with it. I have been wrenching for over 60 years and hopefully I give a few more “turns” to go. Thank you ! |
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11-08-2021, 02:37 AM | #43 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-08-2021, 02:42 AM | #44 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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Thanks and continued good luck with your projects. |
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11-08-2021, 02:44 AM | #45 |
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11-08-2021, 02:46 AM | #46 |
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11-08-2021, 07:24 AM | #47 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Offer $2000
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11-08-2021, 10:18 AM | #48 |
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11-08-2021, 02:38 PM | #49 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
I agree with you. Fairness in compensation and all that goes with it. I sleep well all through the night as I try to treat all with respect and fairness thus the clear conscience. . The price was extended to me and I believe it to be a special consideration so I will go with this deal.
In my opinion your comment was not blunt but a simple plain truth. Bottom line, both sides should be happy. Thanks again goodcar Be well - |
11-08-2021, 02:44 PM | #50 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-08-2021, 03:34 PM | #51 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-08-2021, 05:08 PM | #52 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-08-2021, 05:16 PM | #53 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Sell it to a European. A fully rebuilt engine would be around 4,500.- euros. Equals some 5,000,- US dollars
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11-08-2021, 06:45 PM | #54 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Who pays the astronomical shipping and handling fees ?
Last edited by McMimmcs; 11-08-2021 at 07:11 PM. |
11-08-2021, 09:31 PM | #55 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
So if and when you buy it and open it up for a look. Take the time to pull the main caps and rod caps off to look at the condition of the babbit and to measure the clearances. Take pictures and document the measurements and keep them with the engine. Pull the valve cover off and again take pictures and document the valve clearances and weather or not they are standard or adjustable.
Time and memory can fade on stuff like this but documentation and a stash of pictures placed in the neck of either the coolant inlet or outlet will be a good thing years from now.
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11-09-2021, 12:33 AM | #56 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Quote:
Nothing more needs to be said as we are cut from the same cloth. Pass it on, healthy tradition of looking out for the folks that came before us and gave us a hand so that we can extend the same to our neighbors and friends today. All good to me and reflects well in this Model A Ford hobby.... it is not all about the money. The gentleman that built these engines we are discussing was a solid guy, a true mentor and friend to me and so many others.... he would agree 100% with this discussion. Carry on and let’s keep the Ford road running smoothly. Thanks again ✔️🇺🇸 **** As as a reminder of our engine rebuild in ‘78. I paid for that rebuild by painting my friend the “A” mechanics small house. He supplied the paint - I supplied my youthful skills . The engine is still motoring us along nicely ✔️ Last edited by SHEC; 11-09-2021 at 12:44 AM. Reason: A new thought... |
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11-09-2021, 12:39 AM | #57 | |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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11-09-2021, 12:51 AM | #58 |
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11-09-2021, 12:48 PM | #59 |
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11-09-2021, 07:20 PM | #60 |
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01-05-2022, 01:17 AM | #61 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Well folks the engine is a gem and man am I glad to have it in the garage....
Sweet and clean interior and bottom end, she oiled up very well. I have read several items here on this site with a need for a new or fresh engine. I pray the original engine continues to do its duty as it has for over four decades. Perhaps I will make this backup available to someone that truly needs it to keep a Ford on the road. A belated Happy New Year one and all ✔️🇺🇸 |
01-05-2022, 05:13 AM | #62 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
congrats! Nice thread and interesting read...........
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01-05-2022, 09:18 AM | #63 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
I'm with Big hammer.........it needs to come apart. Then you know exactly what you are dealing with.
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01-05-2022, 10:32 AM | #64 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
I'm with Big hammer.........it needs to come apart. Then you know exactly what you are dealing with.
and that is why some of you need to pay 7k for a rebuilt engine........ |
01-05-2022, 10:50 AM | #65 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
That is not blunt. I am with you a 100% on your comments. Nicely said.
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01-05-2022, 06:24 PM | #66 |
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
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01-19-2023, 02:28 AM | #67 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 279
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Greetings folks and an update on the rebuilt engine. She is doing great with nearly a year of service and all is well.
I did not disassemble it as I knew the original gentleman mechanic that rebuilt it ( knew him all my life), I’ve also been running our original engine that he rebuilt in the late ‘70’s and it is going strong also. You go with what you know and utilize the lessons from those you have trusted… it all seems to work out well. Hoping the same for you and yours on the Ford road. |
01-19-2023, 08:43 AM | #68 |
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Location: Hebron, CT
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Based on your description of how it was stored I don't see any issues with internal corrosion. There is probably a small film of oxidation/rust on components not coated with oil but this should have no adverse affects on operation. As has been previously mentioned in some of the posts the type of babbitt used, machining tolerances, undetected block or head cracks are the areas that I would question. You say you knew the mechanic who did the work very well. This person could have been the best but sometimes the nature of the beast he was working on is not always fully understood.
My guess is this engine will probably start up on the first try. A fair asking price would be $1500. |
01-20-2023, 01:10 AM | #69 | |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 279
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Quote:
Very pleased and feel quite fortunate to have the power and reliability of two of my mentors engines… what a blessed Model A Ford life! |
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01-20-2023, 07:48 AM | #70 |
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Join Date: Aug 2020
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
$1,200 and don't open it
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01-22-2023, 04:20 AM | #71 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 279
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Re: Pricing for a rebuilt engine - been sitting for a time
Thanks for the input ….. the engine has been in our Coupe for many months now and it is on the open road. As I wrote before, I didn’t open it up as I prepped the engine very well before firing it up. A true gift and a solid proven value at our original agreed to price.
As you can see from the the thread photo it was even prepped very well and all his engines look great while doing the job. Solid work and value all around. Well thanks for checking in…. the sun is out and I’m off for another drive today checking in on my buddies and their Winter projects. All the best ✔️🇺🇸 |
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