Henry' s steel

[russcc]

Thanks to the Fordbarners, I watched the Bonny & Clyde historical movie someone put together. Knew most of the details except one thing. Clyde liked the 33-34 Fords for their speed, but they also had another life saving benefit, the steel in the body. Apparently the law used .45 caliber hand guns and the Thompson Sub machine gun, (both .45 caliber), but they found they barely dented Henry's steel on Clyde's '33. The had to go to the military BAR and the Springfield 3.06, I think they both used the same steel jacket slug.
So what was the secret to Henry's "bullet proof steel" ? What gauge and alloy was it ? And why was it so effective in stopping the .45 slug ?

[Russ/40]

Ford's steel production was top notch for the time. Probably the most outstanding way the Fords of the time can be differentiated from its competition.

[mike1934]

I can tell you this much the muzzle velocity of the 45 is 802 feet per second
and the BAR 30.6 was 26 to 2800 FPS also the used armore piercing rounds from what I read.
I also own the twin to thier car but I haven't shot at it .....yet

[39topless]

"Bullet Proof steel?" Gotta call "bullshit". I once owned a 34 that, before it's resurrection, had several shotgun blasts in it's sides. They made holes clear through the "bullet proof" steel. Myths are fun but, by definition, are just myths.

[Bill Wright]

I'm buying the "Bullet Prooof" scenario.

[rockfla]

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There are SOOOOO many variables in ballistics in all of the conversation held here and I'm sure there is someone out here with more knowledge than me...But... topless39 at what distance was your 34 shot at with a shotgun? I would bet at pretty much point blank range at which case I would bet most ANY caliber projectile would penetrate the steel. Most of the .45 caliber rounds fired were at "some" distance from a (I'm sure fleeing the scene) car so the whole energy loss over distance (and fleeing car traveling the same direction as a bullet) makes perfect scenes PLUS you have the curvature of the bodies that aide in deflection of an already dropping bullet due to gravity...... and there is more to the story...... The "final" seconds of Bonnie and Clyde took an ambush setting at very close range with high power projectiles (and its .30-06) with heavy grain bullets traveling supersonic speeds to do what they did. This is't a firearms forum so I'll end it here but will say the whole steel thickness and production of is a plausible theory. Just food for thought. As to the strength and longevity of the 33-34 Fords look how many you see compared to Chevy, Dodge, Pontiac, Buick etc. etc.

[RalphG]

I know of a 39 Pontiac that has sat outside all it's life and the metal appears to be just as solid as that on my 39 Ford, (which has a spent most of the past 40 years inside storage. I wish they had used as good quality steel in 52.

[Conair007]

The glass was strong too.

[russcc]

We didn't seem to get to what gauge and type steel alloy that Henry used in the 33-34's bodies yet. The theories on why the .45 didn't seem as effective make sense. But what was the steel ? Anyone know ? Any metallurgists out there on the Fordbarn ?

[Mart]

Surely this has to be an urban myth? The car I saw had plenty of holes in it. Barrow wrote to Henry Ford saying the car was fast. He didn't mention superior metallurgy and increased armour piercing resistance. (He said, tongue in cheek).

Mart.

[cmbrucew]

I have heard or read that ford panels were 19 guage.
I know that 1940 panels were thicker than 1950.
Bruce

[Bruce Lancaster]

You can get some (but never enough) info on Ford steels from the Henry Ford Trade school's text on Metallurgy and metallography. Ford used mostly his own formulas of steel, and there were lots of different one...some types and there uses, some with heat treat formulas, are described in the book.
Hard to find one for sale, but try interlibrary loan at your library.

[RalphG]

One thing you will notice on most vehicle pre WWII is fender cracks and other parts of the body. I have a few welded up on my 39 and have seen them on most pre-war cars and trucks. The theory told to me is that the heavier gauge metal cracks and the newer , lighter gauge metal did not. Seems to be true as my 52 Merc has no cracks, just rust.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Another thing...on late cars the outer stampings at least are fairly shallow, as modern hoods and fenders and such are fairly flat. Old Fords, like your '39, are very voluptuous with deep highly curved fenders and such.

I would be astounded if Ford sheetmetal could stop a reasonably angled .45 shot, but might just believe it for shots fired from behind striking the side of the departing car...the curves meeting in such a situation would tend to deflect the shot, and might actually succeed...?

[rotorwrench]

Ford used there own steel rolled right in house at the Rouge. I would be fairly sure that their steel was somewhere near a form of draw quality steel that is available today as AKDQ or aluminum killed draw quality. Floors and structure were usually 18 gauge and the body steel was somewhere near 19 gauge or possibly thinner. The stuff had to be soft enough to go through the presses used by FoMoCo and thick enough to be durable. In the farm country that I'm from, you seldom ever saw an old 1920s/1930s vehicle that didn't have cracks in the fenders with chicken scratch repairs.

Later manufactured cars have thinner and harder steel due to new processes and the fenders don't hang out there where they can vibrate and fatigue like the old cars did.

[Torchie]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

You can get some (but never enough) info on Ford steels from the Henry Ford Trade school's text on Metallurgy and metallography. Ford used mostly his own formulas of steel, and there were lots of different one...some types and there uses, some with heat treat formulas, are described in the book.
Hard to find one for sale, but try interlibrary loan at your library.

My Father -in -law went to Fords trade school and was apprenticing in the Heat Treating Dept when the war started. I will have to ask him if he still has his text book.
Torchie.

[Fordors]

From an original '32 cowl I get .0375, 20 Ga.

[RalphG]

Originally Posted by Fordors

From an original '32 cowl I get .0375, 20 Ga.

I'll try to remember to check my 39 fenders next time I am near it. Just curious now.