Redoing Brakes

[chrs1961815]

These days, how much does it cost to redo your whole brake system (original way) including cast iron drums? My brakes on my AR feel good but I was warned that they need to be completely rebuilt.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I was recently quoted $500 a wheel, my 30 pickup truck has original style brakes/parts, do not remember if parts/drums were upgraded parts/replacements. Shoes and drum were in OK but worn shape, so we decided to scuff up the shoes and have the place adjust as good as they can. Did not have $2000 in the bank to spend on this. Looks like I will have to save up the money.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

I was recently quoted $500 a wheel, my 30 pickup truck has original style brakes/parts, do not remember if parts/drums were upgraded parts/replacements. Shoes and drum were in OK but worn shape, so we decided to scuff up the shoes and have the place adjust as good as they can. Did not have $2000 in the bank to spend on this. Looks like I will have to save up the money.

As an fyi, they quoted 8 hrs labor per wheel. This was for a late 30, and do not think it included new backing plate assemblies.


For the work we agreed on

• Adjust all brakes
  • Scuff rear shoes
  • Reassemble
  • Repack bearings
  • Replace front axle bearings $710.00

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

$2000 is a reasonable estimate if you choose to do most of the work yourself. If you are hiring someone to 'turn-key' the work for you, generally speaking between $3,300-$3,500 to do everything. There is a lot of work to restore everything on an early Model-A (-no such thing as an AR Model-A) as some of the components are unavailable and must be restored instead of replaced.

[CarlG]

Contact Randy Gross.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by chrs1961815

These days, how much does it cost to redo your whole brake system (original way) including cast iron drums? My brakes on my AR feel good but I was warned that they need to be completely rebuilt.

Originally Posted by CarlG

Contact Randy Gross.

Does Mr. Gross also rebuild brake shaft housings, brake cross-shafts, rebush the pedal, install tracks on plates, center/arc the shoe linings, etc. for a hobbyist to rebuild their entire system?

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Does Mr. Gross also rebuild brake shaft housings, brake cross-shafts, rebush the pedal, install tracks on plates, center/arc the shoe linings, etc. for a hobbyist to rebuild their entire system?

When I had Randy do my brakes, I sent him everything from the backing plate out. Everything came back like it was new from the factory with cast drums. He does all the other things that you mentioned but since those had been done previously and were in good condition, I didn’t have them done.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by CarlG

When I had Randy do my brakes, I sent him everything from the backing plate out. Everything came back like it was new from the factory with cast drums. He does all the other things that you mentioned but since those had been done previously and were in good condition, I didn’t have them done.

Thank you. Was just curious.

[1929]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Contact Randy Gross.

agree with Carl, Randy was very helpful.

[jw hash]

I`m with Carl contact Randy Gross 714 292 8660

[Charlie Stephens]

Be are to start any conversation with the fact that you have an "AR" system which I assume you want to retain. I think you are going to find that most parts are for the later systems.

Charlie Stephens

[chrs1961815]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Be are to start any conversation with the fact that you have an "AR" system which I assume you want to retain. I think you are going to find that most parts are for the later systems.

Charlie Stephens

I would like to keep the AR system but the struggle I have with it is that the emergency brake does not run independently from the brakes, which I do not like for safety reasons. Though I suppose if the system was completely rebuilt you would not have to worry about failures.

[AL in NY]

I just redid the brakes on my 30 CCPU myself and the figure of $2000 is way too high. If you are any kind of mechanic, the parts will cost you: 4 cast iron drums = $1000, 8 new brake shoes= $256 and some odd and ends= $100. Your labor is not included and that includes arcing the shoes yourself (not that complicated). My truck will now stop as good as any car with non-power assisted brakes.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

I just redid the brakes on my 30 CCPU myself and the figure of $2000 is way too high. If you are any kind of mechanic, the parts will cost you: 4 cast iron drums = $1000, 8 new brake shoes= $256 and some odd and ends= $100. Your labor is not included and that includes arcing the shoes yourself (not that complicated). My truck will now stop as good as any car with non-power assisted brakes.

The $2000 included labor to have it done, I am not a mechanic. Well worth it to me having someone familiar do it correctly, than for me to try to learn how and mess it up.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

I just redid the brakes on my 30 CCPU myself and the figure of $2000 is way too high. If you are any kind of mechanic, the parts will cost you: 4 cast iron drums = $1000, 8 new brake shoes= $256 and some odd and ends= $100. Your labor is not included and that includes arcing the shoes yourself (not that complicated). My truck will now stop as good as any car with non-power assisted brakes.

I find that folks sometimes want to compare apples to oranges in hypothetical situations like this. I believe the original poster's question was " ...how much does it cost to redo your whole brake system (original way) including cast iron drums?" in which my reply was $2k was a reasonable estimate if they are doing the work themselves. The key wording that I took to heart was the whole system. Again, folks want to have great brakes but most mechanics choose to take many short-cuts to save money. Al, I am not arguing with you because you knew exactly what needed to be replaced on your truck's braking system however if we are going to restore ALL of the components back to factory specifications, -and do a quality job with quality parts, I do not believe your numbers are accurate.


I took the liberty to poll the prices of the two largest Model-A parts suppliers who in my opinion manufacture the best quality reproduction braking components. I have listed the majority of the parts that are required to restore the typical Model-A braking system. I think when most people look at this list and verify the pricing, they will see my estimate is not too far off. So we are clear, I find that most hobbyists that are rebuilding their own vehicle's brakes do NOT have all of the tools necessary to do the job correctly, and as such require assistance for restoration on certain components. Removing & installing brake drums is one such area. Most people do not have a large enough press, a lathe, nor a way to true the drums. The same can be said for accurately/correctly installing brake tracks or brake linings on shoes. Add in properly restoring a brake service brake cross-shaft or even front brake shaft components are items that make or break having quality brakes just like when the vehicle was brand new.


Now if we really want to split hairs in this debate, it is always easy to forget the incidentals that seemingly add to the cost too. For example, no one likes to factor in the cleaning supplies to clean the removed brake components, nor the costs of the masking tape & paint required to coat all of the new or restored parts, ...nor the bearing grease, or fasteners, cotter pins, and like supplies needed to do the job correctly. In addition, folks like to forget the expenses of boxing cores up for shipping (like 4 heavy brake drums & hubs, 4 brake housing plates, 8 brake shoes, etc., etc.) and then the costs of the freight for the restored cores & new parts to be returned. Again, I am not trying to step on anyone's toes or upset anyone but hopefully you will see that my answer above was based on real-world experiences and not just a fake number.


.
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[daren007]

Scuff shoes? Please explaine.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by daren007

Scuff shoes? Please explain.

Brakes are glazed, it was the shops description of whatever they do to recondition them. What exactly they do I do not know.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Brakes are glazed, it was the shops description of whatever they do to recondition them. What exactly they do I do not know.

Under certain operating conditions, the linings sometimes develop a glazed surface where they contact the drum which reduces their effectivness. It is simply a matter of roughing them up again with coarse abrasive paper (about 80 grit works well) till the glaze is taken off them.

[AL in NY]

Brent, your list looks like a parts list for a fine points car brake job, You're replacing everything but the backing plates. A close inspection of your car's working parts will find that most are reusable and if original, better than the new parts on your list. If you're working on a braking system from a totally neglected Model A, and you don't do the work yourself, $2000 is a good number. A good owner/mechanic can cut hundreds of that estimate and still end up with an excellent braking system.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Brent, your list looks like a parts list for a fine points car brake job, You're replacing everything but the backing plates. A close inspection of your car's working parts will find that most are reusable and if original, better than the new parts on your list. If you're working on a braking system from a totally neglected Model A, and you don't do the work yourself, $2000 is a good number. A good owner/mechanic can cut hundreds of that estimate and still end up with an excellent braking system.

Actually, my experience as a professional in this hobby counters your opinion. To begin with, many items on my list would NOT be used in a Fine Points car brake job. Many reproduction items cannot be used due to being aesthetically incorrect. If you believe that list of reproduction parts is too expensive, you probably won't like the prices of NOS parts either.

And generally speaking, a close inspection of the car's working brake parts are NOT reuseable simply because they were partially worn when the vehicle was 'Restored' but were re-used anyway likely because someone was too cheap to do it correctly.

We average about 15-20 complete brake jobs a year, and Larry is probably doing close to that amount too, ...and I'd venture a guess he would agree with me that most Model-A hobbyists who are wanting to rebuild their vehicle's braking system are NOT wanting to cut corners or half-ass the job. In their minds, the previous "Restorer" has already done that and now the stress of having marginal braking has taken its toll on the owner's nerves where they just want to do it correctly where they will be the best they can be. If someone chooses to repair brakes reusing worn parts, that's their business but suggesting others to do the same is foolish, ...especially in a public forum.