Oil pressure loss in cornering

[Mart]

Check carefully for hairline fatigue cracks around the top of the pickup can. FWIW the only time I have witnessed loss of oil pressure on cornering was when the oil level was too low. It must be worth checking that the dipstick gives a correct reading when the correct amount of oil has been put in.

Mart.

[Robert Dip]

Mart, I checked carefully as you mentioned for hairline cracks and found none. The metal can is 'unmolested' and in 'as-new'condition. As for the oil in the pan, I'll have to do a test by filling it on the bench and comparing the quantity with the dipstick. FYI, I drained 4 quarts out of the pan before removing it. When I made the oil change, including filling the Ford remote filter, I needed a little more than 5 quarts.

[Mart]

Hard to say then. Those are the most obvious things to check, once ruled out, it's difficult to think what it may be.

Here's a long shot - was it very cold when you noticed the problem? Are you using "thick" oil? Was the engine still cold?

Probably not but you never know.

Good luck.

Mart.

[OLD...BILL]

Lets do a "dip-stick" test, put the dip-stick tube in place, and how much oil dose it take to show full on the stick, looking at the pan where the pickup screen sat in the pan, make me wonder how clean is the screen, can you see light through it ?? With a very limed amount of oil through the screen, and any movement of oil in the pan, would stop flow..... just think may be, not a baffle problem after all ?? ....OLD....BILL ( rank of second turnip )

[Tom Walker]

The problem is the lack of a baffle. The only kind of baffle that works is a horizontal one. All these doors and verticle walls are utterly useless, in fact they often make the situation worse by preventing the oil from returning to the pump pick up.

If you fill a cake tin with water and turn it on its side, a lid will stop the water coming out, verticle "baffles" wont.

[JWL]

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The screen housing canister, where it attaches to the pump casting, needs to be sealed perfectly. Check for possible gasket failure. Also, check the distance from the screen housing(not the screen) to the bottom of the sump.

The M-19 style pump, which has already been mentioned and pictured, is a good upgrade in design. And, as previously mentioned, the pick=up tube would have to be changed.

[Cecil/WV]

Since the pan is long and fairly narrow, it seems to me that the oil is far more likely to get away from the pickup tube upon braking than it is on corners.

[David J]

Was this accelerating or decelerating ? If you let off the gas as you did this it looks to me that your oil could easily surge towards the front and side briefly starving the pump . Post 27 makes a good point about the complete lack of a horizontal baffle to control this and your existing baffle will actually impede the recovery . I am heading to a friends that messes with newer stuff and will take some pics of more modern ways of dealing with this problem . Remember the surge of the oil is rarely straight sideways unless you are maintaining constant speed through a perfectly uniform curve . How often does that actually happen . Interesting problem !!!!!! The pics are of a 33-34 baffle and you can see there was effort put into controlling oil surges in ALL directions .

Originally Posted by Robert Dip

I noticed that I lost oil pressure in hard cornering. It was not at any great speed, the oil level was reading normal, Robert

[Robert Dip]

When do I lose oil pressure…..ok…..normal day, not to cold….I have an industrial building where my cars are kept and stored ( with all of the equipment to work on my cars…so I am fortunate to have this ) and I go for a test drive down the road….not too much traffic…so test runs are easy. I come out of the drive, hang a hard left while accelerating….and notice the oil pressure drop to zero. I have not noticed if this happens in either directions. I use Castrol 20W50 in the engine, but that should not make a big difference….it’s thick enough. The existing baffle is directly in front of the ‘can’ and the screen bottom portion is deep in the pan, practically hitting the bottom….which does not seem right to me….as someone mentioned, there should be a gap ( 3/8th inch was mentioned ) to allow the oil to flow from the bottom into the ‘can’. However, with this design of pump and sump….that’s the way it is….no adjustments in height are possible. The oil level in the pan, in relation to the sump becomes important, and possibly having a baffle parallel to the crank is in order, since there is one already across the sump to take care of stop & go factor. Tomorrow, I shall make this my priority…..there has to be something here that needs improvement.

[flatjack9]

What pressure gauge are you using?

[Kahuna]

IM Very HO, you have the best pump to use. It places the pickup almost center rear of the Pan.
WHen I built my engine, I made a plate (my pan had NO baffles in it) that sits horizontally and above the depression or sump in the pan. It allows oil to move about as it should, but slows it's movement from either moving up the back pan wall, or moving away from the pickup on decelleration.
To me, if you have a cornering issue with pressure, it must be lack of oil (clearly it's not), or an issue with the pump or screen pickup housing.
The plate sits directly below the crank screen in this mockup (may be a bit difficult to see, but it's the only picture I could find).

[Mart]

Could it be a completely different problem??

like a wiring problem - something shorting the sender wire or a bad connection that loses feed to the gauge on left handers?

Clutching at straws here, maybe a mech gauge hooked up temporarily would take any doubt away.

Mart.

[Robert Dip]

Oil pressure guage is a Mallory mechanical, not electrical. Pressure begins at 60 with a cold engine and varies between 20 & 45 in normal use, if my memory serves me right.
Kahuna, I like the screen baffle that you made...how is that working out?

[Cecil/WV]

You might add extra oil and see what happens.

[Kahuna]

Robert
As far as I know it's fine. I haven't had the pan off since I built the engine.

[Robert Dip]

Checking the pan dimensions and the can/screen on the block: After cleaning the pan, I mounted it on the table and gave it a 2-3 degree incline towards the rear to simulate engine in the car, even though the coupe has a forward rake with a dropped axle and lower spring. A few degrees here or there should not be a big deal. I installed the very same dipstick setup and filled the pan with 1 US gallon of Varsol to simulate the oil. As seen on the photo, the dipstick is showing ‘full’. ( full being at the bottom of the arrow ).
The depth of liquid was just slightly over 2 ½”. I also measured the screened can and it measures approx. 2 ¼”. Since it sits at the bottom, and the actual can measures 2”, it leaves this space for the protruding screen and the pan bottom. It would be safe to say that the can is submerged and leaving ¼” on top of it…..providing the car is at a standstill. With a running engine, how much oil is still left in the pan, and is it enough to lower the level to cause a problem….should not, as the engine was designed this way.
The mystery continues……does one add an extra ½ quart of oil to compensate…..make an additional baffle….?? Robert

[Mart]

Don't forget that the volume of the oil pump and pickup will be submerged in that oil. In other words, if you put the 1 US gallon in with the pump in there it would read above full on the dipstick.

I'd be tempted to run with the oil level carefully set to a small amount above the full mark, and monitor for increased leakage. If no problems from leakage, just keep the oil at the full mark or above.

I seem to remember someone having a similar problem and they traced it to the bolts that held the pickup to the pump being slightly too long and not clamping the pickup to the pump properly, allowing air to be drawn in.

Mart.

[cmbrucew]

Robert
You could get a spare pan plug, drill and tap it 1/4" ips, install a male hose adaptor and clear tubing long enough to anchor above the engine. Then you can see the oil level with engine running.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

[OLD...BILL]

How about some large holes on the side of the "CAN" 1/2"-3/4"- or 1" dia. this would give oil aces to pass through the screen and on in to the pump. If the screen is too close the pan to pick-up, and oil moves away on a turn, it should flood the side of the can ??...I looked at five pans in my shop, three have baffles, fixed to the sides with 1/4" X 1" opening at each end at the bottom, and one opening in the center. Another pan has a baffle fixed at the side, with opening in the baffle, one inch away from the side, and is open all the way across the bottom. two others NO baffle, one is a two piece ( truck ) pan
QUESTION How clean was the screen as you took it out ?? ..and how is the baffle in your pan fixed in the pan ??
NOTE: I would stay with your oil pump, as it makes good oil pressure, ..long been a rule here on the Barn " 30 lbs at 30 MPH " life is good. At this point I would pull the intake and clean the lifter valley, from the crud that was in you pan, the valley needs cleaning
Also I think you oil pump is "A DEMOCRAT " can't turn left and keep working ....OLD....BILL

[OLD...BILL]

How about some large holes on the side of the "CAN" 1/2"-3/4"- or 1" dia. this would give oil aces to pass through the screen and on in to the pump. If the screen is too close the pan to pick-up, and oil moves away on a turn, it should flood the side of the can ??...I looked at five pans in my shop, three have baffles, fixed to the sides with 1/4" X 1" opening at each end at the bottom, and one opening in the center. Another pan has a baffle fixed at the side, with opening in the baffle, one inch away from the side, and is open all the way across the bottom. two others NO baffle, one is a two piece ( truck ) pan
QUESTION How clean was the screen as you took it out ?? ..and how is the baffle in your pan fixed in the pan ??
NOTE: I would stay with your oil pump, as it makes good oil pressure, ..long been a rule here on the Barn " 30 lbs at 30 MPH " life is good. At this point I would pull the intake and clean the lifter valley, from the crud that was in you pan, the valley needs cleaning
Also I think you oil pump is "A DEMOCRAT " can't turn left and keep working ....OLD....BILL