Restoring Spindle Arm and Steering Gear Arm Balls...

[Steve Plucker]

How many of you feel comfortable in replacing/restoring the balls on the Spindle Arms and the Steering Gear Arm?

During my neophyte days of Model A Restoration (1966-68), I sent my Spindle Arms and Steering Gear Arms off to have "new" balls put on.

When I got them back, they looked great. Fast forward to 1980 when I drove my 1929 Standard Coupe back from a trip to California and as I was just entering Bend, Oregon, I lost my steering! I almost soiled my britches on that one!

Pulled into a gas station at the point of no steering and discovered the ball had seperated from the Steering Gear Arm. Using my MAFCA Roster at the time I called someone and they got me a Steering Gear Arm so I could coninue my trip back to Walla Walla, WA.

From that point on, I have always tried to find good and unworn originals.

Anyone ever had an experience like that with those "reconditioned" Spindle Arms and Steering Gear Arms?

Even if you have done the job yourself...do you really feel comfortable?

Pluck

[tudoor]

I don't trust something that's been welded to a cast steel part. I have built up the ball and then grind down the weld. It takes some time but I believe it saves the integrity and strength of the part.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I welded the 4 balls and filed them back to the correct diameter. Next time I'll just send them to A&L to have new balls installed on the shaft.

[wayne1953]

My brother is my mechanic and he has done both welding the balls up then grinding back down and cutting the ball off drilling out the arm and welding the new ball back on.

5 years with some of both no problems no cracks...but I would not have done it myself with my limited welding I left it to an expert

[Tom Endy]

In past years many clubs had seminars replacing the spindle balls. They would saw the ball and shank off and drill a hole where the shank was. A new ball and shank obtainable from most Model A suppliers was pushed through the hole and welded in place. This can be a very dangerous situation depending on how big the hole was and how bad the weld was.

A friend had a technique where he would saw the ball and shank off then mill a precision hole such that the new ball and shank would press in with an interference fit. he would then take them to a certified welder and have them welded. I felt comfortable with this process.

Some time later an accident was reported in the Restorer where one of these sloppy seminar fixes failed and the person lost steering control. Bratton's Antique Auto shortly after took the ball and shank replacements out of their catalog. The reason being they did not want to be party to a possible law suite.

A&L in New England came up with a much better fix. Instead of sawing the ball and shank off they mill the existing ball down to where it is even with shank. They then press a ball with a hole in it on over the shank with an interference press fit. The very top of the ball is then welded to the top of the shank. In this manner they do not molest the integrity of the original forging.

When you buy replacement spindle arms from Bratton's, they come from A&L. I feel very comfortable with the A&L process and have installed them on a number of cars.

Tom Endy

[Purdy Swoft]

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It all depends on the weld and who does it!! The ball welded to the shank can seperate and fall off just as easily if the weld fails. I have used rebuilt steering arms and shortened pitman arms done by Wiley Higgins in Cummin Georgia for many, many years with great service. The great work that Wiley does can not be detected. I allways see the A&L steering arms highly touted here. Not taking anything away from the quality of the A&L parts, I just feel that it is high time that Wiley gets equal recognition for the great work that he performs.

[wrndln]

I agree with Tom W. and Tom E. about A&L reballing steering components. The technique they use makes a lot of sense. They leave the original shank and sweat on a hardened ball with a hole through the center. I can's see how this process could have flaws. I suppose there could be a problem with the inside part of the Ford component, but that would be extremely rare. I have had several done by A&L and have no worries about them failing.
Rusty Nelson

[dave in australia]

Originally Posted by tudoor

I don't trust something that's been welded to a cast steel part. I have built up the ball and then grind down the weld. It takes some time but I believe it saves the integrity and strength of the part.

The steering arms etc on the A are forged, not cast.

[Geo. H]

I lost a replaced ball on my roadster's pitman arm while coming down the switchbacks at the entrance to Arches National Park. I was okay after I stopped trying to steer and just jammed on the brakes. I bought a new pitman arm. No more ball replacements.

[1931 flamingo]

Steve: A lot has changed since 1968....................and A&L's method is one of them.
I've watched the machine(s) used running.
Paul in CT

[George D]

Over the winter I replaced the three balls on front axle as part of a total restoration of 30 coupe. Used a new shorter Pittman to help dad steer. My method was cut old balls off drill under size, ream for light press, weld top and bottom with my mig, smooth out on grinder. I'm comfortable with my welding skill but now I'm wondering if I should have done this. The car has not been on road yet but will be completed this week. Maybe I should have had them stress relieved. Never thought much of it till reading this post thought these things were tried and true.

[rally 1]

I just finished my steering arm ball replacement. I machined the arm for the replacement ball shaft to a light press, installed a small solid cross pin, and had it tig welded top and bottom, and spot weld the cross pin.
Mechanically retained by the cross pin, and professionally welded.
Don't expect this to ever come apart.

KK

[msmaron]

1 man...WILEY HIGGINS....nothing more need be said if you want perfection!!

[Rock Hornbuckle]

I don't want to take the chance of a weld breaking. I try to elminate any potential life endangering situations. After surviving a year in Vietnam, I practice "better safe then sorry". I buy new steering parts. It's OK if I risk my life, but not Ok to risk my children or grandchildrens' lives.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

I don't want to take the chance of a weld breaking. I try to elminate any potential life endangering situations. After surviving a year in Vietnam, I practice "better safe then sorry". I buy new steering parts. It's OK if I risk my life, but not Ok to risk my children or grandchildrens' lives.

Good point, New pitman arms are now available. No new steering arms are being produced. the right and left steering arms are only available rebuilt-exchange . The rebuilt steering arms , either have the shank turned down and a new ball welded to the shank or the ball and shank cut off, the arm drilled and a new ball and shank pressed in and welded on. Its really a matter of the weld and who you trust to do the job. Either method can fail JUST as easily if improperly done. In the early ninties I was able to purchase good used steering arms with good balls from A's and More in Stafford Springs Connecticut. Good used steering arms are hard to find but in some cases are still available.

[Pilotdave]

I used replacement balls with shanks. My local machine shop milled off the old balls and drilled holes for the shanks. The welding was done by a local certified welder who has done a number of these replacement jobs. I wouldn't do this repair myself, but I feel confidant about this welder's skills.

[Pmsqrd]

I think Bert's rebuilds them by using the machining down the old ball method.

[Mike V. Florida]

Model A times mentioned a guy in Wichita I think his name was Francis Grady.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Good point, New pitman arms are now available. No new steering arms are being produced. the right and left steering arms are only available rebuilt-exchange . The rebuilt steering arms , either have the shank turned down and a new ball welded to the shank or the ball and shank cut off, the arm drilled and a new ball and shank pressed in and welded on. Its really a matter of the weld and who you trust to do the job. Either method can fail JUST as easily if improperly done. In the early ninties I was able to purchase good used steering arms with good balls from A's and More in Stafford Springs Connecticut. Good used steering arms are hard to find but in some cases are still available.

A friend presses the stud in with a slight interference fit, leaves 3/8" of the stud out, heats the end cherry red, then, with ball on his anvil, peens them over. NEVER a failure. Bill W.

[John Stone]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Model A times mentioned a guy in Wichita I think his name was Francis Grady.

I have 4 sets of Grady's balls on my cars. First set was 1978. Of course around Wichita we have certified welders (aircraft you know). I think he is uses case hardened balls. He has taken some and tried to break off the ball with a sledge hammer but only bent the arm.

Locally we always say that Grady has a great set of balls.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by John Stone

I have 4 sets of Grady's balls on my cars. First set was 1978. Of course around Wichita we have certified welders (aircraft you know). I think he is uses case hardened balls. He has taken some and tried to break off the ball with a sledge hammer but only bent the arm.

Locally we always say that Grady has a great set of balls.

Well, tell Ol' Grady to quit "GLOATIN' Buster T.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

How many of you feel comfortable in replacing/restoring the balls on the Spindle Arms and the Steering Gear Arm?

During my neophyte days of Model A Restoration (1966-68), I sent my Spindle Arms and Steering Gear Arms off to have "new" balls put on.

When I got them back, they looked great. Fast forward to 1980 when I drove my 1929 Standard Coupe back from a trip to California and as I was just entering Bend, Oregon, I lost my steering! I almost soiled my britches on that one!

Pulled into a gas station at the point of no steering and discovered the ball had seperated from the Steering Gear Arm. Using my MAFCA Roster at the time I called someone and they got me a Steering Gear Arm so I could coninue my trip back to Walla Walla, WA.

From that point on, I have always tried to find good and unworn originals.

Anyone ever had an experience like that with those "reconditioned" Spindle Arms and Steering Gear Arms?

Even if you have done the job yourself...do you really feel comfortable?

Pluck

I must weigh in on this Steering Pitman Arm re-ball issue as well. Our safety in these old Model A's should always be the number one priority.

I also purchased a re-balled steering pitman arm well over 20 years ago and have run it on my coupe without ever giving it a thought. Lots of tours and lots of miles and I can't recall which Model A vendor I purchased it from since it was so long ago. It was just reballed one and not on of the modified /shortened ones...

Leaving on August 21, I was going to drive my coupe on the GAMARAI 2013 tour around Iowa with the Central Iowa Model A Club. It would be approximately a 900 mile round trip for me so I prepped my car for the tour and also went over all of the steering components to grease, adjust, and tighten everything. All looked well for this tour..

On the morning I left for this tour, I was driving to get to the bottom of my driveway and suddenly noticed I had "power steering". Since I didn't recall ever installing power steering, I stopped the car and looked under it to see that the ball had separated from the pitman arm!!!. The back side still had paint on it so from one side it still looked fine.

I had an old original one in my garage that I was able to quickly swap out and get going down the road. I never thought to put an extra pitman arm in my car with my other repair items so it could have been a major break down on the road. But the scary part is what would have happened to us on the tour on those long steep hills and high speeds if it would have happened later. Who ever was watching out for us that day, Thank you....

Luckily I had the happy ending version and we went on the GAMARAI 2013tour and had a great time with the Iowa folks and also a few folks from Illinois and Indiana as well... Met some nice Ford Barners as well on the tour...

PLEASE anyone who has purchased at any time in the past a re-balled unit, PLEASE double check these re-balled pitman arms. Take it off the car and hit it with a hammer to hear it ring. This pitman arm looked fine right up until it separated that morning.

I wire brushed off the paint on the back side of the pitman arm and shot this picture to show how this happened to this particular one...

IMG_1663.jpg

[Don S]

I had a similar escape from disaster . We were at a show in town. The merchants wanted us to park on the wide side walks. When I drove off the side walk I had no steering. The welded on ball had probably broken when I backed over the curb.Really lucky,just parked and got a tow home.This was 20 or so years ago. New ball and studs were available with threaded ends and pinned nuts complete with tapered shaft to fit.Still on, no worries. Doesn't look original but that's ok with me.

[tgreen03]

I called him and he no longer does this work, retired

[Pete W.]

Another vote for Wiley Higgens! He's quick and the best, nice guy too.


I also had a pitman ball problem at 40 mph in a curve

[Pete]

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Several years old thread but advice on NOT repairing steering balls is always good.
Welding of any kind on steering parts not a good idea. Most of that kind of repair is done in back yard shops and heat treat can never be controlled. There are cases where welded steering parts resulted in accidents and the insurance companies denied claims.
Many people are willing to play russian roulette with saftey stuff but they seldom think of the guy in the other lane.

The best repair is to drill out the old balls, put a 7 degree taper in the hole and use a 3/4-16 early Ford truck tie rod end on both ends of a piece of DOM tubing.

If you need it to look stock, find some good usable original parts for your judging type car.

Just a side note. No welding is allowed on steering parts by any sanctioned racing venue.

[chrs1961815]

The best way is the way A&L does it - turn the ball down and a sleeve is put on. Welding a new ball in is not safe enough for my comfort, especially on a pitman arm.

[Model "A" Fords]

DIY steering ball repairs. In the tool & die and stamping business I have seen how ignorance of proper repair procedure can cause death by well intentioned people. Steering repair can have a similar outcome. The questions below may direct your decision whether this repair is for you.
Am I doing this repair safely or is it just to save money?
What is the type of material I'm working with in this job?
Do I know its physical properties?
How do I know if it has had any prior heat treatment?
Do I know how to prepare it correctly before welding?
What is the proper material for welding my part for a safe result?
Has my welding material been stored in the correct environment?
Is pre heat and post heat required for welding this piece?
Is it possible to heat it too much that it looses its integrity?
Am I really experienced in this type of welding?
Can I shape to final finish without leaving flaws like nicks or stress risers?
Can I make the ball round within a few thousands on an inch as the original?
Does this part or any partial section of the part require hardening?
Am I capable to harden and stress relieve correctly?
What does hardening even accomplish?
How would I know if any of this work is even needed?
I don't understand so should I revisit my past DIY work for unsafe practice?
Is this even legal to do?
Am I confident my Good intentions have the desired safe outcome?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

DIY steering ball repairs. In the tool & die and stamping business I have seen how ignorance of proper repair procedure can cause death by well intentioned people. Steering repair can have a similar outcome. The questions below may direct your decision whether this repair is for you.
Am I doing this repair safely or is it just to save money?
What is the type of material I'm working with in this job?
Do I know its physical properties?
How do I know if it has had any prior heat treatment?
Do I know how to prepare it correctly before welding?
What is the proper material for welding my part for a safe result?
Has my welding material been stored in the correct environment?
Is pre heat and post heat required for welding this piece?
Is it possible to heat it too much that it looses its integrity?
Am I really experienced in this type of welding?
Can I shape to final finish without leaving flaws like nicks or stress risers?
Can I make the ball round within a few thousands on an inch as the original?
Does this part or any partial section of the part require hardening?
Am I capable to harden and stress relieve correctly?
What does hardening even accomplish?
How would I know if any of this work is even needed?
I don't understand so should I revisit my past DIY work for unsafe practice?
Is this even legal to do?
Am I confident my Good intentions have the desired safe outcome?

When you think about it most of those questions could be applied to a back yard shadetree repair of anything.
It brings to mind the title of my favorite book. "Surgery At Home For Fun and Profit".

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

DIY steering ball repairs. In the tool & die and stamping business I have seen how ignorance of proper repair procedure can cause death by well intentioned people. Steering repair can have a similar outcome. The questions below may direct your decision whether this repair is for you.
Am I doing this repair safely or is it just to save money?
What is the type of material I'm working with in this job?
Do I know its physical properties?
How do I know if it has had any prior heat treatment?
Do I know how to prepare it correctly before welding?
What is the proper material for welding my part for a safe result?
Has my welding material been stored in the correct environment?
Is pre heat and post heat required for welding this piece?
Is it possible to heat it too much that it looses its integrity?
Am I really experienced in this type of welding?
Can I shape to final finish without leaving flaws like nicks or stress risers?
Can I make the ball round within a few thousands on an inch as the original?
Does this part or any partial section of the part require hardening?
Am I capable to harden and stress relieve correctly?
What does hardening even accomplish?
How would I know if any of this work is even needed?
I don't understand so should I revisit my past DIY work for unsafe practice?
Is this even legal to do?
Am I confident my Good intentions have the desired safe outcome?

Yes, this list is SO true however I dare say most of the know-it-all hobbyists will not even take the time to read thru your list much less apply the wisdom in your list of questions to their own abilities.

FWIW, the comments/wisdom/advice on social media these days about what is the correct -or incorrect way to repair Model-As has changed my whole mind about trying to correct someone's wrong mindset with facts. Now, I just go back to the comedian Ron White's famous line of You Can't Fix Stupid, and just let some of these people show their ignorance and let the believers act on their advice.

Originally Posted by Pete

When you think about it most of those questions could be applied to a back yard shadetree repair of anything. It brings to mind the title of my favorite book. "Surgery At Home For Fun and Profit".

Pete, that is funny!! I would expect to see some YouTube videos being produced in the near future to replace this Best Sellers List book.