Awful sounding Head rattle on new rebuild

[Mike51Merc]

My heart goes out to you, but it doesn't sound like a fuel thing. Something let go and you have to find out quick. Pull the head and intake first. If you don't find anything you have to pull the pan and maybe the whole engine.

[Scottyboy]

Pulled the intake manifold back off as a starter. Everything visually looks in place. All horseshoe clips are on and the spring retainers look to all be in place. Valve stems are riding on the lifters. I am going to pop the head off next.

[Scott H in Wheaton]

Keep it at, and thanks for the update

[deuce_roadster]

[QUOTE= After a little while longer, the insert remnants get broken up, and a horrible knock sets in as the rod seeks some fresh air![/QUOTE]

Yeah, I would call that a worst case scenario.

[chap52]

I know it's a pain, but even if you find something when you pull the heads I would pull the pan just in case something migrated there from above.
Your not the first one to have to go back and do this. Don't ask how I know...
Thanks for keeping us updated.

[Scottyboy]

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Well I cracked the head off. The head looks fine from the inside. No signs of anything banging on it. I am not sure exactly what to look for at this point without removing the valves and pistons. Any body have some thoughts? Amazing how fast the carbon soot has built up after about 1 hour of run time. The witch hunt continues. Drain the oil pan to see if I have metal in it?

[GB SISSON]

I would pull the other head before you go investigating down below. Also, stretch a couple layers of cheese cloth over your oil drain bucket. Let's hope you see nothing but oil.

[40 Deluxe]

Did the vehicle sit a long time while the engine was rebuilt? If so, did you drain the old gas out before starting? If it's old gas, that may explain the carbon. If it's years old, there may be varnish-like residue coming from the tank that is coating the exhaust valve stems and making them stick open. This will cause lifter noise, but probably not to the extent you describe. Still, if it ever sat long enough for the gas in the tank to evaporate, you may have this goo forming on the exhaust valve stems in the near future.

[Scottyboy]

I posted pictures in my 53 Ford Album of the head and the right deck surface. Does this seem like an extreme amount of carbon for a 60 minute old engine? I'll drain the oil and advise what I find.

[Scott H in Wheaton]

how do we find this album?

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by Scott H in Wheaton

how do we find this album?

I couldn't find any album either.

[Scottyboy]

Sorry the album was set to private. It is now public. I am feeling more confident that the problem is not in the bottom end. (Maybe just hopeful) I drained the Brad Penn oil through 3 layers of cheese cloth into a pan as GB Sisson recommended and no metal. I slowly poured the oil into my recycle pan and there were maybe 2 tiny crumbs of metal at the bottom. I fed my telescoping magnet into the pan drain plug to pick up anything else and nothing. Another idea.. A couple of the exhaust valves seem a little wet around them. I didn't use guide seals on the exhaust valves. I used them only on the intake valves. There seemed to be a difference of opinion on this. Should I have used the guide seals? I am going to remove each of the valves to inspect seats and the rest of the assembly next. I guess I am hanging on to the hope that I don' have to pull the *&^% engine out again. It nearly killed my 58 year old body getting that *&&^% transmission underneath and up into the bell housing from down under.

[Bassman/NZ]

Only 58? Yer just a pup!

[chap52]

Crawled under my truck the other day. I laid there for a moment and couldn't remember why I got under there in the first place. Got out, went into the house and took a nap. Now that's a relaxing hobby.
If I were still only 58 I may have remembered, or at least taken a shorter nap.
Keep us posted.

[Mike51Merc]

Originally Posted by Scottyboy

A couple of the exhaust valves seem a little wet around them. I didn't use guide seals on the exhaust valves. I used them only on the intake valves. There seemed to be a difference of opinion on this. Should I have used the guide seals? I am going to remove each of the valves to inspect seats and the rest of the assembly next. I guess I am hanging on to the hope that I don' have to pull the *&^% engine out again. It nearly killed my 58 year old body getting that *&&^% transmission underneath and up into the bell housing from down under.

The intake valve guide seals are needed because they are exposed to engine vacuum in the intake runner path. The exhaust paths are exposed to exhaust pressure, not vacuum, so the seals aren't needed, although I suppose there's no harm in putting them there except that they'll eventually be cooked by the heat into a petrified ring of rubber.

Neither set of valve guides is under oil pressure, only some splash, and oil generally doesn't defy gravity to shoot up there into the valve seats.

Your heads have no oil passages. I'd suspect the wetness was coolant. Was this block checked for cracks?

Edit: Now I looked at your pictures. I'd again suspect the wetness was coolant and you probably just dripped some on there when you removed the head. The carbon may have been from initial start up with the choke on.

[Mart]

I'm at a disadvantage only being able to look at the pics, but piston no 3 (all of 'em actually) does look like the "pointy" dome I had in mind in my previous comment, and the dome in the head above no 3 piston does have a slight shinyness right in the middle, though I would be the first to admit this could just be a reflection of light in the edge of the little bowl (power slot?) in that area.

It might be worth "claying" above the piston (small balls of aluminium foil stuck in place with grease works well) just to check there is plenty of clearance. I'd just put the head back on with the previously used gasket to do this.

Good luck with it.

Mart.

[Ol' Ron]

I don't use seals on either thr intake or exhaust. I use a small amt of hi temp RTV on the intake guide and Never seize on the exhaust. I also Knurel the guides for a .0005-.001' Stem to guide clearance this lubricates the stem to prevent sticking, but prevents oil leaking into the combustion chamber under hi Vacuum conditions. Things we learn after building allot of them.

[billwill]

Go in the cyl withmaginet fish around listen for clink and pull it out peek a boo.goodluck

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by billwill

Go in the cyl withmaginet fish around listen for clink and pull it out peek a boo.goodluck

No "maginets" necessary! In case you haven't read it, he's already got it opened-up. DD

[29AVEE8]

Update? Please keep us informed.