*1927-early '28 AR differences*

[MrModelT]

Hi all!

I am assisting a family resurrect their late father's '28-'29 Tudor. on closer inspection, it had the remains of the LH early parking brake handle making this car an AR. Further digging revealed the frame number as *A15066* meaning this car is SN# 5,066 and setting a very early production date around December 30th, 1927. The car has been in the family since the early 1960s and is in killer shape, but is in need of a restoration.

They want to put the car back to its correct, original appearance (Empress Blue/Black, straw wheels). Since we know its an early AR with differences from the later '28 production cars, we want a definitive list of all the early AR specific differences so we make sure to get it right. I have "Henry's Lady" on order, but was thinking the Judging standards might be a good selection too..

Is there a book that details all this stuff?

Thanks!
Mr. Model T

[chrs1961815]

Judging standards is the book and only book.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by MrModelT

Since we know its an early AR with differences from the later '28 production cars, we want a definitive list of all the early AR specific differences so we make sure to get it right.

I agree that the Restoration Guideline and Judging Standards is the main source for printed materials that you should consider.

Additionally, I think you will learn that there is not any production-built 1928 - 1931 Ford Model-A that is correctly labeled as an 'AR'. I probably would even go as far as saying that any information you receive from a source that calls an early Model-A by the term 'AR' likely is not versed on the early production cars anyway and should likely not be considered a credible source of accurate information.

[MrModelT]

Originally Posted by chrs1961815

Judging standards is the book and only book.

I will pick up a copy.

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I agree that the Restoration Guideline and Judging Standards is the main source for printed materials that you should consider.

Additionally, I think you will learn that there is not any production-built 1928 - 1931 Ford Model-A that is correctly labeled as an 'AR'. I probably would even go as far as saying that any information you receive from a source that calls an early Model-A by the term 'AR' likely is not versed on the early production cars anyway and should likely not be considered a credible source of accurate information.

That is an interesting point. What is the correct usage for the label "AR"? is there a better term for an early production '27-'28 car besides "Early Production" ?

[Jim Mason]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ghdhy5UUIfc

[Jim Mason]

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Engine number 15066 was released to production on 1/26/28 which would very early 28.

[MrModelT]

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

Engine number 15066 was released to production on 1/26/28 which would very early 28.

After reading into it, I thought that "A1" was present in every number, so the numbers after that would be the production number. So its not #5066?

[Keith True]

While there is really no such thing as an AR,most will know what you are talking about when you say it.You say the engine # is,15066,then 5066.Which is it? Not really much difference as it only puts them a month apart.5066 is Dec.27 and 15066 is Jan.of 28.I have a July 28 Phaeton with a lot of the early features on it.

[Keith True]

I typed out my message with a watered down version of the info that Jim posted,then lightning touched down in my front yard before I posted it.When I did post it I saw Jim had already steered you in the right direction.I saw blue fireballs dancing on the tin roof of my Model A shed.

[Jim Mason]

http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/numbers.html


http://plucks329s.org/studies/studie...tudies_ep.html

[MrModelT]

Originally Posted by Keith True

While there is really no such thing as an AR,most will know what you are talking about when you say it.You say the engine # is,15066,then 5066.Which is it? Not really much difference as it only puts them a month apart.5066 is Dec.27 and 15066 is Jan.of 28.I have a July 28 Phaeton with a lot of the early features on it.

Ah, okay I get it now. After reading over all the SN decoders i could find, I was under the impression that the *A1 was the prefix, not just *A.

In that case, it would be 15066, not 5066. Still early, just not as low as i thought.

[d.]

wheels were painted black until mid-'30. check the restoration guide//judging standards, a must have for correct information.

[Gary Karr]

I restored a mid-December 1927 Standard Coupe and after almost 20 years of research, I feel that I know something about very early Model A's. I am happy to discuss anything with you as well as share pictures and research to help you put this Tudor back to how you want it to be.

[al's28/33]

Post some pictures of the early features and frame # so we can see and admire what you have.

[Jim Mason]

Here's examples of what I'd like pictures of, please?


http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/early.html

[rotorwrench]

The term "AR" is not a well defined term. It basically refers to a suffix used by Ford on parts that were 1st edition parts with no revision or engineering change suffix. Some folks believe it means "as released" but I've not seen anything to confirm that. Suffice it to say that the early cars were the ones produced in late 1927 and the early few months of 1928.

When Ford first started production at the Rouge in Dearborn, the first 200 cars were built and evaluations were constantly ongoing so changes for assembly processes, product quality, and product function could be made on the fly. A lot of changes in procedures and parts happened with those first 200 but it was a continuous process with Ford that lasted till they stopped production in late 1931. I don't know how long it took Ford to build those first production cars but it was likely within a short period of time. The other branch plants and the sub-contractors had to get started and all that took a bit of time but it was likely a lot less time than a person might think. Ford was into mass production so once they got cranked up, thousands of cars per day was the norm. According to production figures, 4,186 cars were built in 1927 alone. In 1928 there were 713,528 cars built so they were well into full production. By the end of 1929 production, Ford had made over 1.7 million cars in just that year alone.

Some of the new cars were immediately sent out to dealers so that they could show them and start taking orders for the new cars. A lot of parts had to be crated up and sent out to the branch plants so that they could get cranked up and I'm sure cars were sent to the branch plants for the assembly line teems to study and get on with the production in line with Dearborn. Consistency was of major importance to Ford. Henry wanted them all to be exactly alike with each body model. There was to be no variance unless an engineering change made it so.

[MrModelT]

Originally Posted by Gary Karr

I restored a mid-December 1927 Standard Coupe and after almost 20 years of research, I feel that I know something about very early Model A's. I am happy to discuss anything with you as well as share pictures and research to help you put this Tudor back to how you want it to be.

That would be most helpful and I greatly appreciate the help! It all depends on how far they want to take it, but i think that is the direction they want to go.

Originally Posted by al's28/33

Post some pictures of the early features and frame # so we can see and admire what you have.

I will do so next time i visit the car, now that i know what I'm looking for. The original engine is gone (as far as I know its not original), swapped in the 1950's for a rebuilt short block in South Dakota.

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

Here's examples of what I'd like pictures of, please?


http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/early.html

I will definitely look for as many of these as I can....and the ones that survive on the car at least.

[ndnchf]

If its any help, I have two refurbished early generator cutouts available.

[frankfalcone]

Greetings Mr Model T
I have a original February 14 1928 Tudor Sedan and have gone through the Standers from the front to the rear and listed all the components with the dates and changes were made. I would be happy to send you a copy except I won’t be home until August 6th.

[al's28/33]

I remember reading long, long, ago, possibly in this forum, that original Model "A" production parts that had been upgraded, or were otherwise eliminated and/or modified were then labeled "AR"...…. meaning that "A" part was "R" retired …… A+R = "AR"
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