The Ford Barn

37coop · 10-17-2013, 02:31 PM

hi guys ,I,v got a frustrating starter motor problem in my 39 coupe 6 volt .its on the back end of a loooong restoration,i last fired it up 2 years ago and then had to remove the engine due to a core plug leak on the oil pan seal area . the last time it turned over no problem and started easily ,2 years down the line a new fully charged 6 volt battery wouldn't move it ,I took the starter motor out and gave it to a friend who cleaned it up and tested it and returned it as good , back in the car and even with cables direct to the starter motor 6 volt and nothing , did the same with a 12 volt battery and it turned slowly and the cables quickly smoked and got red hot ,in the u.k we don't have the luxury of several starter motors hanging around so before I take it to be expensively restored perhaps some kind souls could point a finger to the problem , many thanks jim.

rotorwrench · 10-17-2013, 03:14 PM

How easily does the cars engine turn over by hand? If you have a volt/ohm meter, you might test the power cable for resitance and positive earth cable for resistance then make certain all the connecting terminals are clean for best possible current flow to your starter.

fordscript · 10-17-2013, 03:24 PM

So the engine turns freely, the starter turns freely before installing, perhaps when you tighten it up to the engine maybe it locks up? Try loosening the 2 attaching bolts and see if that helps. Could be that when your friend overhauled the starter he put too many or too thick thrust washers on the end of the armature. Also sounds like your cables might be too light.

Wensum Valley Rods · 10-17-2013, 04:44 PM

Hey Jim, as Fordscript says what leads are you using ? The new modern leads aren't any good for 6 volt systems. They can't carry the loads and overheat almost instantly. Bev's pilot has a modern lead from the solenoid to starter and we only get a couple of goes at it before it gets to hot and then it hardly cranks.
It should however have cranked really well with 12v. Have you still got it running positive earth or have you changed it to negative? Are your earthing straps from the chassis to engine good ?
More than likely to be a dodgy lead or something tight in the engine or starter mounting than a bad starter. Normally they start to go bad but still crank over for quite a while.
I know it sounds stupid but there no chance of it maybe being in gear is there, done it before myself , with the wheels chocked or handbrake on it wont move the car forward it will just stall the starter and cook the leads.
Paul.

rotorwrench · 10-17-2013, 05:47 PM

The clutch might be crusted up too. If it's stuck to the flywheel, the engine has to turn the input and cluster in the transmission when you are trying to start the engine.

DICK SPADARO · 10-17-2013, 07:02 PM

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The question is do you have an engine problem or a starter problem??? Since this engine has not operated in two years there is a good chance that something is amiss in the engine like a rusted cylinder wall or a stuck valve. Especially if you live in a damp climate area. Before you burn up another set of cables or starter, pull the spark plugs and use a hand crank to spin the engine over. If everything in the engine is ok there will be very little resistance to rolling the pistons over with a hand crank. If you have to tug or use extra effort to roll the assembly over then there is an internal engine issue. If the engine is difficult to spin first squirt some penetrating lubricant in each cylinder and see if the condition improves. If it does keep hand cranking the engine over to see if the drag lessens. If it does not within 10 revolutions then some engine examination is in order.

37coop · 10-18-2013, 01:56 PM

thanks guys , ,the engine turns over easily by pushing /pulling on the fan,by the fact that jumper leads went direct to the starter motor I,v sort of eliminated the earth /body factor,the clutch/flywheel is free,its pos earth ,I will try again tomorrow with meatier jumper leads direct to the starter motor,the leads that are on the car are thick and adequate I will take it out again and start again step by step ,probably something simple but the time these simple things take to rectify is frustrating asyou all know , cheers jim.

rotorwrench · 10-18-2013, 04:18 PM

Even most modern jumper cables are too small a gauge for a 6-volt car. To get a decent set for me personally, I made them up from some high quality Bluestreak clamps and OO gauge welding cables. They work well on anything from 6-volt to 24-volt turbine helicopters.

37coop · 10-19-2013, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Even most modern jumper cables are too small a gauge for a 6-volt car. To get a decent set for me personally, I made them up from some high quality Bluestreak clamps and OO gauge welding cables. They work well on anything from 6-volt to 24-volt turbine helicopters.

I,ll have a think on that one for the future ,I never realised meatier leads would be required for 6 volt , lesson learned , many thanks , jim.

10-17-2013, 02:31 PM	#1
37coop Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: kent , u.k Posts: 519	39 coupe starter motor problems hi guys ,I,v got a frustrating starter motor problem in my 39 coupe 6 volt .its on the back end of a loooong restoration,i last fired it up 2 years ago and then had to remove the engine due to a core plug leak on the oil pan seal area . the last time it turned over no problem and started easily ,2 years down the line a new fully charged 6 volt battery wouldn't move it ,I took the starter motor out and gave it to a friend who cleaned it up and tested it and returned it as good , back in the car and even with cables direct to the starter motor 6 volt and nothing , did the same with a 12 volt battery and it turned slowly and the cables quickly smoked and got red hot ,in the u.k we don't have the luxury of several starter motors hanging around so before I take it to be expensively restored perhaps some kind souls could point a finger to the problem , many thanks jim.

10-17-2013, 03:14 PM	#2
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 39 coupe starter motor problems How easily does the cars engine turn over by hand? If you have a volt/ohm meter, you might test the power cable for resitance and positive earth cable for resistance then make certain all the connecting terminals are clean for best possible current flow to your starter. Last edited by rotorwrench; 10-17-2013 at 05:44 PM.

10-17-2013, 03:24 PM	#3
fordscript Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oamaru, New Zealand Posts: 419	Re: 39 coupe starter motor problems So the engine turns freely, the starter turns freely before installing, perhaps when you tighten it up to the engine maybe it locks up? Try loosening the 2 attaching bolts and see if that helps. Could be that when your friend overhauled the starter he put too many or too thick thrust washers on the end of the armature. Also sounds like your cables might be too light.

10-17-2013, 04:44 PM	#4
Wensum Valley Rods Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 34	Re: 39 coupe starter motor problems Hey Jim, as Fordscript says what leads are you using ? The new modern leads aren't any good for 6 volt systems. They can't carry the loads and overheat almost instantly. Bev's pilot has a modern lead from the solenoid to starter and we only get a couple of goes at it before it gets to hot and then it hardly cranks. It should however have cranked really well with 12v. Have you still got it running positive earth or have you changed it to negative? Are your earthing straps from the chassis to engine good ? More than likely to be a dodgy lead or something tight in the engine or starter mounting than a bad starter. Normally they start to go bad but still crank over for quite a while. I know it sounds stupid but there no chance of it maybe being in gear is there, done it before myself , with the wheels chocked or handbrake on it wont move the car forward it will just stall the starter and cook the leads. Paul. __________________ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=720735

10-17-2013, 05:47 PM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 39 coupe starter motor problems The clutch might be crusted up too. If it's stuck to the flywheel, the engine has to turn the input and cluster in the transmission when you are trying to start the engine.

10-17-2013, 07:02 PM	#6
DICK SPADARO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Altamont, NY Posts: 1,004	Re: 39 coupe starter motor problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The question is do you have an engine problem or a starter problem??? Since this engine has not operated in two years there is a good chance that something is amiss in the engine like a rusted cylinder wall or a stuck valve. Especially if you live in a damp climate area. Before you burn up another set of cables or starter, pull the spark plugs and use a hand crank to spin the engine over. If everything in the engine is ok there will be very little resistance to rolling the pistons over with a hand crank. If you have to tug or use extra effort to roll the assembly over then there is an internal engine issue. If the engine is difficult to spin first squirt some penetrating lubricant in each cylinder and see if the condition improves. If it does keep hand cranking the engine over to see if the drag lessens. If it does not within 10 revolutions then some engine examination is in order. __________________ dickspadaro.com

10-18-2013, 01:56 PM	#7
37coop Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: kent , u.k Posts: 519	Re: 39 coupe starter motor problems thanks guys , ,the engine turns over easily by pushing /pulling on the fan,by the fact that jumper leads went direct to the starter motor I,v sort of eliminated the earth /body factor,the clutch/flywheel is free,its pos earth ,I will try again tomorrow with meatier jumper leads direct to the starter motor,the leads that are on the car are thick and adequate I will take it out again and start again step by step ,probably something simple but the time these simple things take to rectify is frustrating asyou all know , cheers jim.

10-18-2013, 04:18 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 39 coupe starter motor problems Even most modern jumper cables are too small a gauge for a 6-volt car. To get a decent set for me personally, I made them up from some high quality Bluestreak clamps and OO gauge welding cables. They work well on anything from 6-volt to 24-volt turbine helicopters.