The Ford Barn

mcgarrett · 02-07-2023, 06:41 PM

Have 2 sets of Champion 860 spark plugs still in factory boxes. 6 plugs per box, so would assume they are for Ford 6 of some vintage. Specific application is a mystery, but side of boxes reads: "Specially engineered for Ford vehicles".
I've tried Google to help ID them, but coming up empty. Anyone know of a vintage spark plug application guide out there? Appreciate any leads.

Mart · 02-07-2023, 07:00 PM

A quick google session seems to indicate it is a small engine plug. Champion's own site says "No automotive application". Don't know why they say engineered for Fords, unless that was a reference to Champion generally (doubt it).

JayChicago · 02-07-2023, 08:17 PM

The boxes look to have a window. The product inside shows thru the window. Maybe those small engine plugs did not originally come in those boxes?

Six in a box does not necessarily indicate for a 6 cylinder engine. I have bought eight plugs and get a box of six, and two loose ones. I figured the manufacture packaged them as a six-pack because six plugs was a common quantity purchased.

rotorwrench · 02-07-2023, 08:40 PM

I think the 223 6-cylinder Fords used them but the V8s definitely did. The F11Y replaced them and the BF42 was likely the factory plug but the 860 is in the same category. I don't know about heat range though. The 860 and 870 may be different heat ranges.

Spark plug numbers are fickle. Any little change and the whole number changes. this link shows the 860 and 870 or the F14Y in the same category. The F11Y replaced the F14Y around 1958 but they may be backward compatible. The heat range is what a person has to watch for.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1155778...ion-spark-plug

Bob C · 02-07-2023, 08:52 PM

If you do a search they show for small engines. https://www.amazon.com/Champion-860-...53814599&psc=1

tubman · 02-07-2023, 09:14 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Things change over time. If you go into any auto parts store today, H-10's are classified as small engine plugs.

At least I can buy 8 individual plugs now, not a box of 10 like back in the day.

mcgarrett · 02-07-2023, 09:33 PM

Thanks guys for all the input. The reference chart that rotorwrench posted the link for held the answer. If I'm reading the chart correctly, the plugs fit 1957 Ford 292 (and perhaps 312) V8. Still strange to me why Champion would sell 6 plugs in a package for an 8 cylinder engine.

GB SISSON · 02-07-2023, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Thanks guys for all the input. The reference chart that rotorwrench posted the link for held the answer. If I'm reading the chart correctly, the plugs fit 1957 Ford 292 (and perhaps 312) V8. Still strange to me why Champion would sell 6 plugs in a package for an 8 cylinder engine.

Perhaps so you purchase another box of six to get the two you need?

ford38v8 · 02-07-2023, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Thanks guys for all the input. The reference chart that rotorwrench posted the link for held the answer. If I'm reading the chart correctly, the plugs fit 1957 Ford 292 (and perhaps 312) V8. Still strange to me why Champion would sell 6 plugs in a package for an 8 cylinder engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Perhaps so you purchase another box of six to get the two you need?

Ever wonder why you can't buy a package of hot dog buns in a quantity to match the hot dogs you picked out?

frnkeore · 02-08-2023, 02:37 AM

When I was a mechanic, in the '60's, the shop bought their plugs 10 to a box. We'd take out 4, for a six and 2, ford a 8 cylinder.

It never made since to me, either but, that's the way it was. I just figured it was for bulk buyers that would by in multiples, like 60 for 6's and 80 for 8's. That's the only thing that made since to me.

Mart · 02-08-2023, 08:06 AM

I think they are 14mm. Fords used 18mm with a taper seat like that.

From Rockauto:

mcgarrett · 02-08-2023, 08:50 AM

Since they are 14mm thread they will work with earlier Ford V8 and 6 cylinder engines, I'm going to try them in my '40 to see how they run. I should be able to determine if the heat range is right after running a few miles and then pull them to check electrode color/condition.

Mart · 02-08-2023, 09:05 AM

Ford didn't use a taper seat except in a 18mm. I don't think they will work for you in a 40.

mobileparts · 02-08-2023, 10:06 AM

860 and 870 Champion are the Ford TRUCK lower and higher heat range Spark Plug..... They are 18 mm Ford spark plugs....

The 1940 Ford uses the H10 / now H10C Champion spark plug... 14 mm -- they used that plug all the way up to 1954....

You will N O T be able to thread in an 860 Champion plug into you spark plug well for obvious reason.......

Mart · 02-08-2023, 10:10 AM

18mm then. The internet gave me duff info.

Maybe the OP could have a look at one and confirm the thread size.

Bob C · 02-08-2023, 12:08 PM

How about a picture of the plug because I'm finding the same information as Mart.

mcgarrett · 02-08-2023, 01:40 PM

Sorry, I had a brain fog moment. Plugs won't fit my flathead.

GB SISSON · 02-08-2023, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

18mm then. The internet gave me duff info.

Maybe the OP could have a look at one and confirm the thread size.

Mart, you were probably thinking in Whitworth......

rotorwrench · 02-08-2023, 03:41 PM

When Champion obsoleted a spark plug, they were gone off of their replacecment charts unless a person can find older cross reference charts that list them and then go on to modern charts from there. Flathead Fords were limited to short reach and flat gasket type bosses so that's why they were only used on small engines after that. Various other small engine plugs have replaced some pf the older flat boss gasket type plugs. A lot of them are 3/4" or other smaller sizes now where the old ones were 13/16. Suffice it to say that the modern 860 spark plug is not the same as the old obsoleted 860 plug of the 50s.
Temporary flea-pay link to older long body 860 spark plug:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/14492659158...Bk9SR4jJgazGYQ

Modern short body 860 also described as a diesel glow plug:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/26610494970...epid=193845518

The tapered boss plugs were new in the Overhead valve era since there was less worry about reach with them but then the core electrode placements started changing to get the spark in a more advantageous spot in the combustion chamber. This opened up a million new plug types

mcgarrett · 02-08-2023, 03:44 PM

Photo confirms they are 18mm. As previously stated, they fit '57 Y block Ford 292 & 312 V8 and some 6 cylinders from around that same time.

02-07-2023, 07:00 PM	#2
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? A quick google session seems to indicate it is a small engine plug. Champion's own site says "No automotive application". Don't know why they say engineered for Fords, unless that was a reference to Champion generally (doubt it).

02-07-2023, 08:17 PM	#3
JayChicago Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Chicago Posts: 732	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? The boxes look to have a window. The product inside shows thru the window. Maybe those small engine plugs did not originally come in those boxes? Six in a box does not necessarily indicate for a 6 cylinder engine. I have bought eight plugs and get a box of six, and two loose ones. I figured the manufacture packaged them as a six-pack because six plugs was a common quantity purchased.

02-07-2023, 08:40 PM	#4
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? I think the 223 6-cylinder Fords used them but the V8s definitely did. The F11Y replaced them and the BF42 was likely the factory plug but the 860 is in the same category. I don't know about heat range though. The 860 and 870 may be different heat ranges. Spark plug numbers are fickle. Any little change and the whole number changes. this link shows the 860 and 870 or the F14Y in the same category. The F11Y replaced the F14Y around 1958 but they may be backward compatible. The heat range is what a person has to watch for. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1155778...ion-spark-plug Last edited by rotorwrench; 02-07-2023 at 08:57 PM.

02-07-2023, 08:52 PM	#5
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,754	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? If you do a search they show for small engines. https://www.amazon.com/Champion-860-...53814599&psc=1

02-07-2023, 09:14 PM	#6
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,319	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Things change over time. If you go into any auto parts store today, H-10's are classified as small engine plugs. At least I can buy 8 individual plugs now, not a box of 10 like back in the day.

02-07-2023, 09:33 PM	#7
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? Thanks guys for all the input. The reference chart that rotorwrench posted the link for held the answer. If I'm reading the chart correctly, the plugs fit 1957 Ford 292 (and perhaps 312) V8. Still strange to me why Champion would sell 6 plugs in a package for an 8 cylinder engine.

02-08-2023, 02:37 AM	#10
frnkeore Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 782	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? When I was a mechanic, in the '60's, the shop bought their plugs 10 to a box. We'd take out 4, for a six and 2, ford a 8 cylinder. It never made since to me, either but, that's the way it was. I just figured it was for bulk buyers that would by in multiples, like 60 for 6's and 80 for 8's. That's the only thing that made since to me. __________________ Frank '35 Ford Model 51 '48 Ford F3 '54 Ford Tudor Mainline

02-08-2023, 08:50 AM	#12
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? Since they are 14mm thread they will work with earlier Ford V8 and 6 cylinder engines, I'm going to try them in my '40 to see how they run. I should be able to determine if the heat range is right after running a few miles and then pull them to check electrode color/condition.

02-08-2023, 09:05 AM	#13
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? Ford didn't use a taper seat except in a 18mm. I don't think they will work for you in a 40.

02-08-2023, 10:06 AM	#14
mobileparts Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: West Hempstead, New York Posts: 167	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? 860 and 870 Champion are the Ford TRUCK lower and higher heat range Spark Plug..... They are 18 mm Ford spark plugs.... The 1940 Ford uses the H10 / now H10C Champion spark plug... 14 mm -- they used that plug all the way up to 1954.... You will N O T be able to thread in an 860 Champion plug into you spark plug well for obvious reason.......

02-08-2023, 10:10 AM	#15
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? 18mm then. The internet gave me duff info. Maybe the OP could have a look at one and confirm the thread size.

02-08-2023, 12:08 PM	#16
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,754	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? How about a picture of the plug because I'm finding the same information as Mart.

02-08-2023, 01:40 PM	#17
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? Sorry, I had a brain fog moment. Plugs won't fit my flathead.

02-08-2023, 03:41 PM	#19
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? When Champion obsoleted a spark plug, they were gone off of their replacecment charts unless a person can find older cross reference charts that list them and then go on to modern charts from there. Flathead Fords were limited to short reach and flat gasket type bosses so that's why they were only used on small engines after that. Various other small engine plugs have replaced some pf the older flat boss gasket type plugs. A lot of them are 3/4" or other smaller sizes now where the old ones were 13/16. Suffice it to say that the modern 860 spark plug is not the same as the old obsoleted 860 plug of the 50s. Temporary flea-pay link to older long body 860 spark plug: https://www.ebay.com/itm/14492659158...Bk9SR4jJgazGYQ Modern short body 860 also described as a diesel glow plug: https://www.ebay.com/itm/26610494970...epid=193845518 The tapered boss plugs were new in the Overhead valve era since there was less worry about reach with them but then the core electrode placements started changing to get the spark in a more advantageous spot in the combustion chamber. This opened up a million new plug types Last edited by rotorwrench; 02-08-2023 at 03:46 PM.

02-08-2023, 03:44 PM	#20
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: What Ford 6 cyl. used these spark plugs? Photo confirms they are 18mm. As previously stated, they fit '57 Y block Ford 292 & 312 V8 and some 6 cylinders from around that same time.