Magneto and belts

[hotcoupe]

Hank, yes Skip Haney is still in business. On a side note, I'm going to use some of the same components that you are, but with an angle drive. I'm going to dig those parts out and see if there is any interference. I believe Don Orosco (R.I.P.) reproduced the angle drive and there may be some surplus stock available. I think all Don's parts went to a guy in Australia.
Tom

[Bored&Stroked]

Are you putting this in a 32 - using a 32 frame and stock front cross-member? That will determine what you can and can't do with belt location.

[hotcoupe]

Hank, as I stated earlier I'm using a Vertex mag also, and I was concerned that I may have problems too. I know you have spent a lot of money and time on your setup, I'm offering this as a last resort. I'm using a Barker (vintage) angle drive and a spacer (see images) the belt clears the mag cap by about 3/8". You have to machine a replacement shaft to accommodate the spacer. Ten years ago I took my sketch of the shaft to what I thought was a competent machine shop and they made a mess of it. I got discouraged and just put everything back on the shelf. Your problems prompted me to get this stuff back out and mock it up to see if it would work or not. Also I'm going to run truck pumps and this is my solution to the problem with the front crossmember, I'm also going to incorporate a '30-'31 crossmember with the '32 crossmember to lower the car a bit.
Tom

[hotcoupe]

Hank, additional images of Vertex plans, my sketch of shaft, and a beauty shot of motor.
Hope this helps,
Tom

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

Hank, as I stated earlier I'm using a Vertex mag also, and I was concerned that I may have problems too. I know you have spent a lot of money and time on your setup, I'm offering this as a last resort. I'm using a Barker (vintage) angle drive and a spacer (see images) the belt clears the mag cap by about 3/8". You have to machine a replacement shaft to accommodate the spacer. Ten years ago I took my sketch of the shaft to what I thought was a competent machine shop and they made a mess of it. I got discouraged and just put everything back on the shelf. Your problems prompted me to get this stuff back out and mock it up to see if it would work or not. Also I'm going to run truck pumps and this is my solution to the problem with the front crossmember, I'm also going to incorporate a '30-'31 crossmember with the '32 crossmember to lower the car a bit.
Tom

Instead of a machining a new shaft could you not use a button adapter like is used with a degree plate or when adapting a short nose cam to a 3 bolt distributor that originally used a long nose cam. Seems too easy.

[Bored&Stroked]

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Originally Posted by hotcoupe

Hank, additional images of Vertex plans, my sketch of shaft, and a beauty shot of motor.
Hope this helps,
Tom

If you cut up your crossmember like that - where is the front leaf spring going to mount? I can see one trimming the back side of the crossmember just a bit, but you can't cut much - or you have no place for the front spring to mount/sit on.

And if you trim the flange/lip off of the back side you should strengthen the cross member a bit . . . or run a modern flat Model A type cross member. Also, if you're running standard U-bolts, then you're even more limited to what you can do - they have to be where they came from the factory.

I'll take a couple pictures of my setup and post them - then everybody can see what needs to be considered. My setup if a stock 32 frame with a 42 Mercury flathead in the stock location (using 32 motor mounts and a 32 fan).

[hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Instead of a machining a new shaft could you not use a button adapter like is used with a degree plate or when adapting a short nose cam to a 3 bolt distributor that originally used a long nose cam. Seems too easy.

Kiwi, I understand what you are saying, but there is nothing to hold the extension on the center line of the shaft. I have given this a lot of thought and making the shaft solid from one end to the other seems like the best solution.
Tom

[hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

If you cut up your crossmember like that - where is the front leaf spring going to mount? I can see one trimming the back side of the crossmember just a bit, but you can't cut much - or you have no place for the front spring to mount/sit on.

And if you trim the flange/lip off of the back side you should strengthen the cross member a bit . . . or run a modern flat Model A type cross member. Also, if you're running standard U-bolts, then you're even more limited to what you can do - they have to be where they came from the factory.

I'll take a couple pictures of my setup and post them - then everybody can see what needs to be considered. My setup if a stock 32 frame with a 42 Mercury flathead in the stock location (using 32 motor mounts and a 32 fan).

Bored and stroked, the image that I posted earlier was ment to show how I modified the '32 front crossmember to accommodate a dual sheave crank pulley. The vacant area is where I am modifying a N.O.S. '30-'31 Model A crossmember. I wanted to lower the car and still use the '32 motor mounts.
Tom

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

Kiwi, I understand what you are saying, but there is nothing to hold the extension on the center line of the shaft. I have given this a lot of thought and making the shaft solid from one end to the other seems like the best solution.
Tom

I’m not home or I could send pecs but the adapter spacer needs to have an ID that centers the shaft adapter button. This is nothing new and been used for years on flatheads with different ignitions and cams. I am presently adapting a Twin 4 cylinder mags on a Vee drive to a flathead.

[Bored&Stroked]

If you're making a spacer plate, it isn't a bad idea to put a sealed roller bearing in it - and then make a shaft to run inside of it. Here is what I did to space my Vertex angle drive magneto out a bit. This gives a bit more clearance for the fan belt.

I don't like adapters flopping around and giving me timing fluctuations - but I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

Plate-Finished-Back copy.jpg

Plate-Finished-Front copy.jpg

PlateOnEngine copy.jpg

MagMounted4 copy.jpg

Drive-Shaft-Finished copy.jpg

Mag-Drive-Mounted copy.jpg

[Bored&Stroked]

Here is a picture to give everybody an idea as to what you have to work with. If you don't modify the crossmember, then you only have about 5/8" to 3/4" of space in front of a single-sheave pulley.

You can modify the crossmember to get more room - which has been done a zillion times. I really pays to mock all this stuff up in the chassis to make some final decisions on how best to address the problem.

IMG_0949.jpg

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

Bored and stroked, the image that I posted earlier was ment to show how I modified the '32 front crossmember to accommodate a dual sheave crank pulley. The vacant area is where I am modifying a N.O.S. '30-'31 Model A crossmember. I wanted to lower the car and still use the '32 motor mounts.
Tom

There should be plenty of room for a dual sheave pulley with your mods - but there probably isn't enough room to cut, rework and fit a 49-53 pulley in the same spot - without being creative on how to strengthen what is left.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Here is a picture to give everybody an idea as to what you have to work with. If you don't modify the crossmember, then you only have about 5/8" to 3/4" of space in front of a single-sheave pulley.

You can modify the crossmember to get more room - which has been done a zillion times. I really pays to mock all this stuff up in the chassis to make some final decisions on how best to address the problem.

Attachment 539534

Thanks for sharing, Dale. Beautiful detailing. I like the black pumps, pulley and mag adaptor set against the maroon block. Looks great.

Not to derail, but I've been doing some work on my roadster and I noticed a rub spot where the belt/pulley is kissing the center of the tie rod. Looking at your pictures, seems like yours is doing the same. Thought of making a spacer to put under the pump legs to raise the motor us a tad, but I think I'll leave it alone.

[hotcoupe]

Bored and stroked, I see the way you supported the extension shaft, that's a good idea and I may copy your method. What started the idea of a solid shaft was the original Vertex drawing ( the image that posted up side down) shows a solid shaft and I just continued with that thought.
Tom

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Thanks for sharing, Dale. Beautiful detailing. I like the black pumps, pulley and mag adaptor set against the maroon block. Looks great.

Not to derail, but I've been doing some work on my roadster and I noticed a rub spot where the belt/pulley is kissing the center of the tie rod. Looking at your pictures, seems like yours is doing the same. Thought of making a spacer to put under the pump legs to raise the motor us a tad, but I think I'll leave it alone.

Yeah, I saw the same thing! It probably happened when I went to the HotRod Hillclimb, we did some real back-roads motoring and my shocks were not up to par. With proper shocks, I don't think it would hit. I'm going to replace the originals with a tube-shock setup . . . have had enough screwing around with Houdaille shocks (sp?).

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

Bored and stroked, I see the way you supported the extension shaft, that's a good idea and I may copy your method. What started the idea of a solid shaft was the original Vertex drawing ( the image that posted up side down) shows a solid shaft and I just continued with that thought.
Tom

I can probably find the bearing number you'll want - took a bit of looking around to find one that wasn't too thick - as I needed room for the mag drive to inset into the plate.

[3W Hank]

I has a 32 front cross but it’s cutted after spring.
So motormounts will on frame.
I just borrowed 2 pumps, one 8AB and one 59 BA ’truck’ ( dual groove )
I found 2 std car 59BA here in Sweden but I need get pulley out atleast 3/8”.
I really ’like’ to use my pre 39 generator and the std 32 fan,
So with the dual groove it might work.
Say I use inner only crank/generstor and outher the pumps.
Or use driverside at inner grove and the crank/generator and on magnet side use the outer.
That is a ide, or ?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 3W Hank

I has a 32 front cross but its cutted after spring.
I just borrowed 2 pumps, one 8AB and obe 59 BA ’truck’ ( dual groove )
I found 2 std car 59BA here in Sweden but I need get pulley out atleast 3/8”.
I reslly ’like’ to usd my pre 39 generator and the std 32 fan,
So with the dual groove it might work.
Say I use inner only crank/generstor and outher the pumps.
Or use driverside at inner grove and the crank/generator and on magnet side use the outer.
That is a ide, or ?

[Bored&Stroked]

I don't see how you're going to be able to use the inner belt unless you make some sort of custom "idler" that is driven by the outer belt from the crank pulley (which will also drive the outer sheeve of the dual-sheeve 37-48 truck pumps) and then it drives the generator/fan on a short belt behind it. You might be able to mount the idler bracket to the two front intake manifold bolts on each side. The idler will need to be able to slide to provide tension to the outer belt and the generator/fan can slide to provide tension to the rear belt. You'll not use the rear sheeve on the water pumps.

[hotcoupe]

Hank, have you considered mounting the sheaves (pulleys) backwards, I know it's not an ideal situation, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
Tom
P.S. I typed that response without thinking it thru, of course you would have to contend with the crank pulley and generator pulley. Probably not a good idea after all.
TW