Transmision and Rear End Fluid question.

[Not George]

I just fired my car yesterday! Very exciting!
It is very obvious it has not been serviced regularly and I plan to change all of the fluids. I am assuming the trans and rear end will be pretty mucky, is there any way I can flush these before filling with new fluid? What should I use?
Also will 90 weight gear oil suffice?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Marty

[Greg Jones]

Hey Marty-If you are in the Mile High City you should get to know Steve Becker at Bert's Model A. Located at the SE corner of intersection of I25 and I70, off the Washington Avenue exit. They can advise you on how to flush and also have the correct replacement fluids. I am afraid 90W is not an acceptable replacement fluid, need the heavier stuff.

[Christoph]

Hi Marty
Good idea to change fluids.
NO WAY to flush the rear-end...
(Once you will take it apart, you will find out why it is to be cleaned with fuel and a toilet-brush...)
Please dont use 90W which is way to fluid
Buy 600W at the vendors ....

Have fun with your car
Christoph

edit :
use that 600W in the steering, the gearbox and the rear-end

[kpreed]

Welcome!
90w is NOT made for vintage trannys, only modern styles, you should use 600w in them and also rear ends. I use STP in mine, but that's me. Good LUCK!
Ken

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by kpreed

Welcome!
90w is NOT made for vintage trannys, only modern styles, you should use 600w in them and also rear ends. I use STP in mine, but that's me. Good LUCK!
Ken

I like that STP idea - any other people used this? Do you run straight STP - I need to double clutch going into third and need to slow those gears down. I have no idea whats in there now but will drain it soon.

What did you use in the rear end?

[kpreed]

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Originally Posted by billybronco1

I like that STP idea - any other people used this? Do you run straight STP - I need to double clutch going into third and need to slow those gears down. I have no idea whats in there now but will drain it soon.

What did you use in the rear end?

Hello,
Yes, I use straight STP in the Trans, I not done the rear-end yet, but it will be STP also. I double clutch too, I think it works fine, but do not expect to much from it. I was told about this from a another Model "A" guy.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

search this forum for threads on 600w and transmission fluid. You'll have enough reading to keep your brain gears spinning for days.

[RonC]

These are the modern equivalents to the Ford transmission, rear end and steering box oils:

Mobilgear 600 XP 680
BP Energol GR-XP 680
Castrol Alpha LS680
Shell Omala 680
Texaco Meropa 680

The ISO Viscosity is 680 weight which is approximately 140 plus SAE Viscosity

[RonC]

Originally Posted by Timothy Kelly

With all due respect, I disagree with the above statement regarding oil viscosity.

The viscosity of the above identified oils is generally in the range of 200 to 250 weight oil. Oil in this weight range is quite thick and can be tough to pour in cold weather. I am not sure that anyone manufactures "600 or 680 weight" oil. If they did, it would be like peanut butter.

Typical manual transmission oil today is often found in the 85-140 weight range.

Transmission oil, at the time Model A Ford's were being produced, was known as "600W" where the 600W was the PART NUMBER, not the WEIGHT of the oil. The weight of that oil was in the 200 to 250 range, just as is the modern 680 oils.

Your correct Tim, The 680 weight is an ISO Viscosity which is approximately 140 plus SAE Viscosity

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by RonC

Your correct Tim, The 680 weight is an ISO Viscosity which is approximately 140 plus SAE Viscosity

Those flow charts are very general in nature and misleading. Look up specific lubricants and you will find just that. Look at the viscosity at 40 degrees Celsius as that is the closest to our operating temps. ISO 680 is actually a little heavier than SAE 250. Ford changed to SAE 250 in 1932 except in sub-freezing temperatures.

[Terry, NJ]

I once cleaned out a Ford 8N tractor by using a propane torch on the case to make the fluid runny. Afterwards, I put some fuel oil in and drained it out after a couple of days It helps to turn the rear end, Jack it up so the wheel is off the ground and can be turned. Do not use the engine to turn it. It will probably splash fuel oil all over everything including your brakes. As far as oil is concerned, we just had a big discussion about oils for the Trans and rear. The oil/grease has to be quite sticky and thick. Why? cause it slows the gears down when you're shifting (No synchromesh) and it won't leak out of the imperfections in the sealing surfaces of your Trans and rear. One guy suggested using Lucas "Hub Oil". That was pretty much shot down. Another said 100% STP, another suggested 50% STP and 50% lucas Oil Stabiliser. I'd probably stick with the suggested brands and weights for now. But always remember, the best oil of the 1930s is not as good as the worst oil made today. Brattons and other parts houses sell oil too, in the quantities you'll be using. Someone said go see Bert and he'll fix you up. And you wouldn't want to know a better guy. I was there last year.
Terry

[Fred K-OR]

Marty, you could use kerosine to clean your tranny. Just drain the old oil, put is a some kerosine and then run it for a little while to work it around in the tranny. Drain it, put in new 600 W oil and you should be good. Don't think it would be good to use kerosine in the rear end because like mentioned above, it may run into the brake drums. But if you just drain the rear end and refill it should work out OK.

Also like mentioned above, stop by and visit with Bert's. They can fix you up with just about everything you may need, both used and new stuff.

[Not George]

Thanks guys!
Went to Bert's and they set me up with the 600W. Changed all fluids and went for a SHORT drive. Steering is like wrestling a bear. When I jack it up it steers pretty easy. I'm going to take apart all of the tie rod ends etc. and clean and re grease every thing.
The carb is leaking like there is no tomorrow. I have a friend who thinks he may have one stashed I can have.

[Terry, NJ]

You just took a time trip to the 1930s! All cars of that era steer like Mack trucks, especially when you're used to modern power steering. You will hear things about putting F-100 steering boxes in place of the original, Anything to modernize the steering! The cheapest one is to just get used to it like grampa did. The second easiest is to buy a short pitman arm. These really work! I have one on my 30 Town Sedan. But check the roundness of the ball ends. Any ridges should filed off and maybe the ball replaced. Oh yeah, and make sure the tires are fully inflated.
Terry

[Not George]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

You just took a time trip to the 1930s! All cars of that era steer like Mack trucks, especially when you're used to modern power steering. You will hear things about putting F-100 steering boxes in place of the original, Anything to modernize the steering! The cheapest one is to just get used to it like grampa did. The second easiest is to buy a short pitman arm. These really work! I have one on my 30 Town Sedan. But check the roundness of the ball ends. Any ridges should filed off and maybe the ball replaced. Oh yeah, and make sure the tires are fully inflated.
Terry

Thanks Terry
I do think the car has been neglected in the lubrication department, and can be GREATLY improved with proper Inspection, cleaning, and lubrication, however, I do appreciate short pitman arm idea. This wouldn't be too far from stock.
They can be bought?

[Terry, NJ]

In another similar thread they talk about the ball ends and out of roundness. The ball ends should not be more than .020 out of round or have ridges. I had one that was about .060 out. These ball ends are replaceable at minimal cost. The hard part is the drilling the old ones out and welding the new ones in. If the wear is minimal, just file it. Here again, talk to Steve at Bert's. Also take the tour of the whole shop and the yard outside and see whats available. If you don't have one, I'd recommend that you buy yourself an inexpensive 0-1" micrometer and/or a vernier caliper. These can be had in flea markets for under $10. This is necessary when you're assessing wear of parts. You're probably right about the lubrication situation. You shouldn't jump to any conclusions until this is cleared up.
Terry

Originally Posted by Not George

Thanks Terry
I do think the car has been neglected in the lubrication department, and can be GREATLY improved with proper Inspection, cleaning, and lubrication, however, I do appreciate short pitman arm idea. This wouldn't be too far from stock.
They can be bought?

[Barney]

Hi, yes, Snyders A-3590-S for 33Bucks. Or do it yourself. The instructions you get is in the book from Les Andrews Mechanics Handbock Vol.2 on side 4-71.
Greetings Barney

[John LaVoy]

Lubriplate SPX 288 is a gear oil specifically made for straight cut gears and does not foam like the 600W being sold by the various parts places. It is a commercial lubricant we found it available at Applied Industrial Technology, but if you go to their website lubriplate.com they have a distributor locator feature.

Since switch to this product we have put several thousand miles on the car and the transmission would only take a single pump of fluid before it started running out. The car shifts beautifully.

[billybronco1]

Could you mean Lubriplate SPO 288

http://www.lubriplate.com/PDFs/PDS/6_4-SPO-Series.aspx

[billybronco1]

Now how the heck do ya get that liquid glue into the little hole on the side of the tranny and about how much does it hold? I would like to hear a few more guys chime in on the STP idea - and what do they think?