The Ford Barn

700rpm · 11-11-2017, 07:16 PM

You will have to remove your valve spring keepers and pull your valves up off the lifters enough so when you turn the block upside down the lifters can fall away from the cam; then you can pull the cam out. You may as well remove the old ones and put new valve springs in while you're this close; they aren't expensive. Then reset your valve clearances after you install the new cam. May consider new valves, guides, and even valve seats. Then there's pistons (you "think" are fresh), piston pins, rings, cylinder wear, bearings...

As you can see, this can mushroom into a full engine rebuild.

This may affect your other plans about carbs, manifolds, heads, etc.

katy · 11-12-2017, 10:38 AM

Quote:

When the dimple lines up with the timing pin on the cover, that will be TDC for one of 2 cycles (compression or exhaust).

Last time I checked, with the pin in the dimple, it was only at TDC at the end of the compression stroke.

Chris Haynes · 11-12-2017, 11:53 AM

I have several 19/32 sockets. They used to be part of a Craftsman socket set.

aermotor · 11-12-2017, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy

Last time I checked, with the pin in the dimple, it was only at TDC at the end of the compression stroke.

Incorrect, the crankshaft turns 2 X for every turn of the camshaft - so you can be 180 degrees out.

Nosetime · 11-12-2017, 07:24 PM

Well, got out to the swap I and got a nice Plumb 19/32" socket, but it does not fit my rod bolts? Nothing does...my Dad remembers there was some weird English nuts and bolts in the 50's that were phased out, maybe what I have here? But, I went to swap with my best friends who are a fabricator and mechanic and persuaded them with beer to come by and attack my remaining headstuds. I had previously gotten out 4 and broke 4. Got the TIG welder fired up, the MAP gas, Kroil, impact wrench and 3 hours later got all of them out! A lot of work, to be sure, and I think if I had to do it again, not so bad! I need a break from grease for a while, time to go surfing!

Nosetime · 11-12-2017, 07:27 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Any Idea why all my photos post sideways, then are correct in my Mac Book photo library, but screwed up when I post?

700rpm · 11-12-2017, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosetime

Well, got out to the swap I and got a nice Plumb 19/32" socket, but it does not fit my rod bolts? Nothing does...my Dad remembers there was some weird English nuts and bolts in the 50's that were phased out, maybe what I have here? But, I went to swap with my best friends who are a fabricator and mechanic and persuaded them with beer to come by and attack my remaining headstuds. I had previously gotten out 4 and broke 4. Got the TIG welder fired up, the MAP gas, Kroil, impact wrench and 3 hours later got all of them out! A lot of work, to be sure, and I think if I had to do it again, not so bad! I need a break from grease for a while, time to go surfing!

I think what you want is 21/32". That was the size of original rod nuts.

Nosetime · 11-12-2017, 08:03 PM

700, thanks, I think thats what we figured, I did not really look, just went by book recommendation. Really easy mistake not to make, but I seem to make those from time to time!

Tom Wesenberg · 11-13-2017, 05:25 AM

Since the timing dimple is in the cam gear, it will be the correct timing mark for TDC firing on number 1 each time the pin drops into the dimple.

Those of you who time the engine off the crankshaft will have the timing mark show up twice for each time number one piston fires.

Nosetime · 11-13-2017, 05:46 PM

New plan is to go through this entire engine, not rebuild if at all possible, but inspect, and reassemble. I have 2 rods that looked as if they had no shims, but after getting one off there was a shim on only one side?, but the babbit looks good to me and the journal looks ok. I have yet to look at anything else yet, but to be honest I feel like if I can get lucky here and get a motor that might be good for 3-5,000 miles or more, its a win for me. This will really be a a Sunday driver, fun car. Here is my first look at the rod in question. I am out of time today, so later in the week I can look at the rest. Photo to follow.

Nosetime · 11-13-2017, 05:49 PM

Pic of Rod and crank.

Tom Wesenberg · 11-13-2017, 08:18 PM

That looks good, and don't worry about lack of shims until the clearance becomes too great. Then it will be time for a rebuild, but in the meantime you can put on a lot of miles without spending your retirement fund. Just drive right and keep it full of clean oil.

zzlegend · 11-13-2017, 08:22 PM

Agree.

glenn in camino · 11-13-2017, 08:40 PM

Definitely replace the timing gear with one made of bronze or aluminum. soak the studs with Kroil overnight. Replace everything that was brazed with new parts. I'd hone the cylinders and put in new rings.

James Rogers · 11-13-2017, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosetime

Well, got out to the swap I and got a nice Plumb 19/32" socket, but it does not fit my rod bolts? Nothing does...my Dad remembers there was some weird English nuts and bolts in the 50's that were phased out, maybe what I have here? But, I went to swap with my best friends who are a fabricator and mechanic and persuaded them with beer to come by and attack my remaining headstuds. I had previously gotten out 4 and broke 4. Got the TIG welder fired up, the MAP gas, Kroil, impact wrench and 3 hours later got all of them out! A lot of work, to be sure, and I think if I had to do it again, not so bad! I need a break from grease for a while, time to go surfing!

Try a 15MM socket.

Nosetime · 11-14-2017, 07:06 PM

My luck may have run out. I know why I could not find the right socket for rod bolts, they are different on 2 of the rods. Pulled #2 and #4 rod caps and they looked good, as well as the crank journals, but then found # 3 and # 1 with some small divots in the Babbitt in rod caps. The crank looks perfect and the babbitt on the other side of both affected rods looks good. I do not have a tremendous amount of money in this to date and yes, I know what "should be done", but am hopeful to hear some "put it back together comments"! I have realistic expectations here and would just like to get this project on the road for a hobby car. I have had a rough go the last several years and this project is important to me. I have a couple more years of child support, braces and college that come first and foremost. Thanks to all for you help and expertise, man I have learned a LOT about Model A's and Ford history and don't think i will give up too easily. What should I do with this? Going back down to the garage now and pull the main caps and see what the heck I have going on....crossed fingers!

Flathead · 11-14-2017, 07:44 PM

If the rest of the babbitt is there and the clearance is good, I would forget I ever saw those "divots" in the bearing. If you are trying to get by, you can tighten up the clearance by carefully sanding the cap on a known flat surface. We all know plenty of people who have done this.

michael a · 11-14-2017, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosetime

My luck may have run out. I know why I could not find the right socket for rod bolts, they are different on 2 of the rods. Pulled #2 and #4 rod caps and they looked good, as well as the crank journals, but then found # 3 and # 1 with some small divots in the Babbitt in rod caps. The crank looks perfect and the babbitt on the other side of both affected rods looks good. I do not have a tremendous amount of money in this to date and yes, I know what "should be done", but am hopeful to hear some "put it back together comments"! I have realistic expectations here and would just like to get this project on the road for a hobby car. I have had a rough go the last several years and this project is important to me. I have a couple more years of child support, braces and college that come first and foremost. Thanks to all for you help and expertise, man I have learned a LOT about Model A's and Ford history and don't think i will give up too easily. What should I do with this? Going back down to the garage now and pull the main caps and see what the heck I have going on....crossed fingers!

If it were me in your situation I would invest and some Emery cloth using it with the paper side out and the good side in I would polish the heck out of that put some motor assembly grease on it put it together and call it good. I would much rather have a scab of .015 then a protrusion of .002. You won't be turning this motor over 2500 RPMs I wouldn't think.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Nosetime · 11-14-2017, 07:59 PM

I guess i'm done. Pulled the rear main and well, thanks for everyones help the last 6 months, but don't think I will be going forward anytime soon. Greg

Tom Wesenberg · 11-14-2017, 10:09 PM

If the clearances are good, I'd put it back together and run it. You can get a lot of miles out of that yet. In the meantime you can save up for a babbit job when or if this gets noisy.

11-11-2017, 07:16 PM	#21
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine You will have to remove your valve spring keepers and pull your valves up off the lifters enough so when you turn the block upside down the lifters can fall away from the cam; then you can pull the cam out. You may as well remove the old ones and put new valve springs in while you're this close; they aren't expensive. Then reset your valve clearances after you install the new cam. May consider new valves, guides, and even valve seats. Then there's pistons (you "think" are fresh), piston pins, rings, cylinder wear, bearings... As you can see, this can mushroom into a full engine rebuild. This may affect your other plans about carbs, manifolds, heads, etc. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

11-12-2017, 11:53 AM	#23
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,832	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine I have several 19/32 sockets. They used to be part of a Craftsman socket set. __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

11-12-2017, 07:27 PM	#26
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Any Idea why all my photos post sideways, then are correct in my Mac Book photo library, but screwed up when I post?

11-12-2017, 08:03 PM	#28
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine 700, thanks, I think thats what we figured, I did not really look, just went by book recommendation. Really easy mistake not to make, but I seem to make those from time to time!

11-13-2017, 05:25 AM	#29
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Since the timing dimple is in the cam gear, it will be the correct timing mark for TDC firing on number 1 each time the pin drops into the dimple. Those of you who time the engine off the crankshaft will have the timing mark show up twice for each time number one piston fires.

11-13-2017, 05:46 PM	#30
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine New plan is to go through this entire engine, not rebuild if at all possible, but inspect, and reassemble. I have 2 rods that looked as if they had no shims, but after getting one off there was a shim on only one side?, but the babbit looks good to me and the journal looks ok. I have yet to look at anything else yet, but to be honest I feel like if I can get lucky here and get a motor that might be good for 3-5,000 miles or more, its a win for me. This will really be a a Sunday driver, fun car. Here is my first look at the rod in question. I am out of time today, so later in the week I can look at the rest. Photo to follow.

11-13-2017, 08:18 PM	#32
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine That looks good, and don't worry about lack of shims until the clearance becomes too great. Then it will be time for a rebuild, but in the meantime you can put on a lot of miles without spending your retirement fund. Just drive right and keep it full of clean oil.

11-13-2017, 08:22 PM	#33
zzlegend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Reseda, Calif. Posts: 2,188	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Agree.

11-13-2017, 08:40 PM	#34
glenn in camino Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camino, CA. Posts: 3,086	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Definitely replace the timing gear with one made of bronze or aluminum. soak the studs with Kroil overnight. Replace everything that was brazed with new parts. I'd hone the cylinders and put in new rings.

11-14-2017, 07:44 PM	#37
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,498	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine If the rest of the babbitt is there and the clearance is good, I would forget I ever saw those "divots" in the bearing. If you are trying to get by, you can tighten up the clearance by carefully sanding the cap on a known flat surface. We all know plenty of people who have done this.

11-14-2017, 10:09 PM	#40
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine If the clearances are good, I'd put it back together and run it. You can get a lot of miles out of that yet. In the meantime you can save up for a babbit job when or if this gets noisy.