Buying a car sight unseen...

[329s]

A few of us over the years have bought Model A's sight unseen either by word of mouth or the now famous internet (ebay).

Just how many have been very satisfied with your purchase? But more over...how many of you got screwed in one way or the other and what were the problems?

Pluck (who has done neither)

[Dave in Boise]

My first A was bought on ebay. at 8K, The body was there, no interior to speak of, and it ran (barely) and was purchased for more than it was worth (the economy and car prices were a bit higher then). The owner said it "ran great". When I got it, the motor was so worn out, that it would not accelerate in 2nd gear on a flat, the bottom of the cylinder bore was 40 thou larger than the top of the bore, and to sum up. it was just wore out. The transmission teeth looked worse than a hilbilly dental convention, and the rear end digested the ring and pinion within 50 miles as the carrier bearings and hub bearings were completely shot.. the brakes were there for show, but considering it would not go past 20 mph, they were likely not needed..

Lack of knowlege on my part along with an auction format, combined with an seller who was vague and evasive ended up in a really lousy deal.

Fast forwards to a few years later...

I picked up a 'restored' 30 tudor for an opening bid on ebay a few years ago for right around 8K.. Fresh paint, perfect body, brand new interior (Lebaron Bonney) good trim, excellent shape. When I got it home, the mexhanicals were all good, but there was not 1 cotter pin anywhere on the car, the rear axle nuts were hand tight, front end not aligned, etc. The old fellow that had restored it went downhill very quickly and the family took his restored chassis and assembled it for sale as no one in the family was interested. They were very forthcoming and very pleasant to work with, included the build book and the reciepts for everything he had in the car. I spent a week, going from front to back, torquing connectors, putting in cotter pins, greasing, inspecting, adjusting etc. It is now my "winter car" being enclosed with a good heater, and I drive it around 3-4 k miles a year.

I believe I was pretty lucky on the 2nd deal.. Or just getting to be a better judge of what is a good deal and what is not..

- Dave in Boise

[Michael in Sedona]

I bought a '29 Tudor in Greyland, WA, sight unseen, but I did have a good report on it from a Model A friend. And I got to see a few photos. It actually turned out to be a better car than I expected, and I still have it as my winter car.

[RcT]

I bought a 1929 Special Coupe, sight unseen, other than pictures on line. The seller was honest as the money exchange was concerned, but his idea of "restored" and mine were different. It was a car with 42k original miles, painted and reupholtered only. New tires, ran okay, but was a twenty footer as to finish. Funny thing about that car... I never really felt it was mine. I guess that comes with buying a "finished" car.

If I were to do it again, I think I might consider contacting a local club and having the car checked out by someone knowledgable. I am in California and the car was in Pennsylvania. it was the style and color I wanted, and that was the big driving force. By the way, another $2000 to transport the car across country. Not a smart way to go.

The car has now been sold do to a bunch of health issues, at a loss, I may add. I learned the costly way, but buy a car close to home unless it is something super-rare and you have the extra money to spend.

[Chris in WNC]

Pluck, here's my reply to a similar thread recently:

Bill, I have bought 3 cars sight unseen, with just photos to go by.
only one of the three arrived at my house looking as good as the photos.
that one was a 7-year-old Volvo.
the 31 Coupe (FordBarn) and the 37 Plymouth (eBay) both arrived loking considerably less pretty than the photos led me to believe.
fortunately, I was still satisfied with both cars in terms of what I paid and what I received.
I do not believe I would ever make a similar purchase again unless I could send a disinterested 3rd party, such as another FordBarner, to look the car over and take digital photos of what they judged to be the worst areas of the car.
at the price point I am buying cars there is nothing so rare or esoteric that I cannot find one close enough to home for a proper inspection.
just my 2 cents........

[CarlG]

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I bought my pickup from only pictures on eBay. The body work was (is) actually better than what was reported, but the mechanicals were waaaaaaay off. For the price I paid, I still think I got a fair deal. It's just a little (well, more than a little) agervating having to trace down and fix all the mechanical shortcommings. As RcT said above: "his idea of "restored" and mine were different"

[Gary Karr]

I bought a '52 Cadillac sight unseen from a Hemmings ad saying that it was a 10K mile original. When I got it, it was actually a 110K mile older restoration. I had an appraisal done on it before I bought it and he didn't even pick up on that. I bought a '29 Coupe on Ebay a few years ago but did drive up to see the car in advance. I also drove to Phoenix to see my '29 RPU before buying it. I learned my lesson the hard way with the Cadillac.

[frank mcdaniels]

Pluck, I know this has been talked about before but maybe by venting a little I can feel better about what I did. I bought a roadster off of ebay (of course) it looked really good in the pictures. I even called the guy and he told me about all the body work that had been done in a reputable body shop and that it only needed a little work to finish it. This was not my first model A purchase by any means and should have known better. I was really excited about finally finding the roadster I wanted so I sent him a personal check and threw caution to the wind. I had to drive about six hundred miles to get the car so that was a considerable amount also with a pickup and trailer getting about nine miles to the gallon. When I got there the car was not even close to how it was described. Because of the time and money already spent I didn't back out of the deal. I could go on for an hour on how bad the body work was and all of the other problems. I do have it done now and am having alot of fun with it, but I certainly over paid for it and have settled for way less than perfection. Long story short, Never ever buy a Model A with out looking at it in person. I don't care how good the pictures are or how convincing the sellers description is. Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Thanks, Frank ( I do feel a little better after that)

[Bob/Kansas City]

I have bought several classic cars sight unseen and have had good success with all but one. I have found most private sellers to be honest and willing to send additional photos, videos and information as well as spending time on the phone answering questions.
The one that went bad was a '55 Chevy Belair from a classic car dealer in Gilbert, Arizona where the seller badly misrepersented the car. When it came off the transport the 265 V8 would hardly run, the old cast iron powerglide trans slipped so badly you had to let off the gas when it it shifted to high to let the worn out parts catch up with each other. Later found that it had been rebuilt by an amateur who left parts out. Thrust washers? Who needs 'em?
Finally had to buy a second powerglide and make one out of two because of the damage done by the faulty rebuild.
The car had been painted over badly done body work but looked good in pictures and of course the seller claimed that it was straight as an arrow when in fact it had more waves than a parade on the body panels.
I finally did settle for a cash refund that helped with the repairs that the car shouldn't have needed if it had lived up to the description.
After redoing the mechanical stuff I sold the car at a loss just to stop throwing more money at it.
I guess if someone is going to buy sight unseen you've got to cover as many bases as you can with the seller to develope some degree of confidence before agreeing to a purchase. I guess it all boils down to a gut feeling about the person and the deal.

[larrys40]

I have bought a couple through ebay...
a 1940 ford convertible.... no reserve and no one else bid on it back in '08...I couldn't believe I bought it so reasonable... Seller was wonderful... made a bee-line trip from St. Louis to around hershey to check it out and make sure all was real but had to sell my old one before I could totally consumate the deal, and the seller was great. It was a good deal, has been a great car, and I sold my other one and upgraded tremendously.

'56 Tbird - bought from a fellow in Allentown PA, on hemmings .com, reasonably priced, and was able to do even better on it, corresponded with more photos and decided to fly up and look at it, he picked me up at airport, I consumated the deal, again he worked with me for a week or two till I sold my '40 coupe, and Terry Oberer and I picked it up a day before Hershey a few years ago.. go to drive it around Hershey for the week and drove it home... it was an awesome week, car is wonderful, driven daily. Terry just passed away.. I will never forget him following me all the way home in the "bird" .

'31 slant window cabriolet - just bought in June on ebay "by it now" Another car bought from Pennsylvania, went out within a week with cash in hand and trailer. Car looked good ( for unrestored of this body style and money) was a good deal, will need total resto ( OK by me) and I am a happy guy.

My suggestion, whether you buy a car on ebay,hemmings, etc, if you think you want or win the bid on ebay, hop on a plane or get in the car and go there and make sure it is what you expect... and go with cash in hand or if they will do a deposit till you return. Most reputable sellers will always be OK with that. I know I would. My warning would be if you don't decide to do that. Looked at a '40 convertible before that was on the internet before from kansas and it popped up on ebay from a guy in canada. I remember it was on the internet before in kansas, I called the number in kansas and the guy said, I sold it to George, my friend in Salt lake.... he called up george while I was on the phone and said hey, do you still have the '40.. he said yes, L
Long story short is the guy in Canada was collecting deposits... on a car he never owned, he just pirated the images off the net. Always go visit the car.... make sure the deal is real and what you expect... then there's no disappointments...

It is quite the coincidence that 3 of my cars are from Pennsylvania and I'm in Missouri.... isn't this a cool hobby!! I feel sorry for the regular folks who just come home from work and cut their grass.

Have a great day!
Larry Shepard
St. Charles, MO

[BudP]

If the car is on EBay, check out the seller's buying and selling records. If the seller buys mostly antique dolls, etc., and if the seller sells almost nothing car-related, call him. Get additional pictures that you request and a copy of the title. If you are satisfied to this point, have somone eyeball the car, take additional pictures and get back to you. There are many, many people on EBay who post a purloined picture using an inactive acccount they have comandeered, or a fake account they have created just to collect deposits.

[TinCup]

I have seen two cars in the last year bought unseen and they both ended up being cosmetically nice and mechanical nightmares. Once was even give the once over by a reputable appraiser. I don't have the resources to make this kind of a gamble.

[old car guy]

I have bought more than fifty cars over the years from pictures word of mouth and of course eBay Craig's list etc. some came in as exactly as advertised and some well were not quite up to snuff. And a few were just plain pleasant surprises. The last was a 1938 Pontiac sport coupe which was advertised as a straight car with some minor rust in one rocker and otherwise very straight and nice. It is more or less was was told much more rust than I expected but what do you expect form a late thirties gm product to start with. So what I am trying to say is that no matter what the pictures show, its really about what you either see for your self and from what I have found out in buying for better than fourty years is just as simple as talking to the seller. It's not always what they describe that they are selling to you. ,it's what they don't say when you ask them. A specific question about condition mechanical etc yes a few deals along the way were not great but for the most part better than 95 percent were equall or better than described. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I sure hope that it continues because I now have my eye on a unmolested all original real barn find 32 ford roadster with a untouched model b 4 Cly still intact with little if any deviation from when it left the factory floor other than being In a shed for the last 58 years.

[peters180a/170b]

I bought a 180A off ebay back in 03... boy did i get screwed.... I posted the seller on Fordbarn back then...seller was a real piece of sh@(. ! Sucked in a few of us... No longer on ebay he is..

[Purdy Swoft]

I bought this one on eBay in 02. It didn't look quiet as good as the pictures up close but I was happy to get a roadster for under five thousand. The condition of the running gear was unknown. No claims were made about condition. It was said that it hadn't run since 1963 I figured I could build up another running gear from parts if I needed to. It turned out to be a matching numbers car.I was able to overhaul the engine myself. The main problem was the shipping. It was suppose to be delivered in two weeks, it ended up being three months. The price went up when it was finally delivered and it was cash on the spot or he would drive away with my car. Nearly another thousand for shipping. I'm still glad to have it.

[buzz]

bought two cars on ebay
first was a 29 sport coupe what a real beauty of a car fresh restoration and every attention to detail was given not 100% show car but a realy nice one and got it for a great price to
so i went back on and searched for a roadster now this car had to be the right color and style wife and i wanted so that narrowed down our choices but yet a car was found
was told it was nice car pics showed all to be ok whne i got it i had to redo the steering brakes carb and head gasket but yet now i have to get the gas tank out and get it cleaned up without touching the paint this car is nice older restoraton and unlike the sport coupe is mostly orginal car but i have never taken out for a trouble freee ride and i have owned this one for two years now
so for me i say if the price is right buy hope for the best and prepare for the worst

[Gumpy]

I have only purchased one car sight unseen and the pictures accurately described it but i agree with others to have a fellow club member (v8)check it out for you...I am under the mis-conseption that cars in the midwest and east are full of rust...but thats not always the case....I was surprized to see some good sheet metal come out of north dakota!

[Dick Carne]

I bought a '29 Briggs fordor off e-bay several years back. The seller asked if I was famililar with Model A's - I advised somewhat, since I've had at least one since the mid-1960's, but mostly open cars. When asked about the wood, he mentioned that it had new top bows and only a little bit of a wood problem in the left front sill plate - turned out that the new bows were cut out of old shelving material, and the wood problem in the left front sill was a missing section about 16-18 inches long. Still, I was looking for a base car to restore, and while wood for patterns would have been helpful, at least the car was solid (dented on top that didn't show in the pictures, but nonetheless). Still, given that I was looking for a restoration project, all turned out o.k. Had I been looking for a "restored" car though, I would have taken more precautions. As many of us have learned over time, "restored" means different things to different people. Just my thoughts....

[TerryH]

I bought a 1930 Town Sedan off a a Hemmings ad about 6 years ago, sight unseen. Here is the story: When I first saw the ad and photos, the car looked great and I was excited. I called the person and asked questions: how many Model A's had he owned, how many had he restored before, what Model A club did he belong to, what other cars had he worked on or restored. When he replied "no" to all of the above I lost interest quickly...then continued looking for a very nice TS. About 2-3 weeks later I had not found anything better, so I called back and we spoke some more. He guessed that I was somewhat put-off by his lack of experience, so he then mentioned that he was a master machinist for 30 years and had also built his own house by hand. He then told me that he had bought all of the Model A books and guides that he could lay his hands on and then spent almost 10 years working on it. He did all of the mechanical, except the engine, which he had re-built, and he had a friend do all the paint.
I had planned a trip to New York (near Buffalo) to see the car, but bad weather the day of cancelled it. For many reasons I wouldn't be able to go again for another month.....I couldn't stand it so decided to go against all advice and buy it unseen...at a nicely restored car price. Prior to that he did send me a couple of hundred digital photos of the car and a Model A club friend looked at them and could not see one thing wrong. I had it shipped out to S. Cal. and first I saw it was when it was unloaded from the enclosed van.
I have since put about 10,000 miles on it and it looks and runs just like a nicely restored Model A should...no horror stories at all, nothing misrepresented, and a gorgeous paint job on top of it all. I was very lucky!