Balancing wire wheels with steel plate welded inside

[mrbilman]

I hate to reopen the tire balance discussion again but i've read all of the old threads and have not found anyone talk about this idea. I have gone thru all the wheels I have (no tire mounted) and sorted them by radial runout and wobble to get the best five. However in doing so, noticed the bare wheels have various amounts of imbalance. Before refinishing these and making them pretty, does it make any sense to balance just the wheel by welding the proper amount of flat steel inside at the light spot to balance the wheel.? I'm thinking if the balance plates are well rounded the tube would not care that its there. Or - will the tires be out of balance anyway, so it doesn't mater if the wheel is out of balance. If so, has anyone tried mounting a tire in various orientations to cancel out the wheel imbalance with the tire imbalance. i know its just a Model A but bouncing down the road is annoying. Like I said, I've read numerous threads so I'm aware of the various options such as beads, stick on weights etc.

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by mrbilman

I hate to reopen the tire balance discussion again but i've read all of the old threads and have not found anyone talk about this idea. I have gone thru all the wheels I have (no tire mounted) and sorted them by radial runout and wobble to get the best five. However in doing so, noticed the bare wheels have various amounts of imbalance. Before refinishing these and making them pretty, does it make any sense to balance just the wheel by welding the proper amount of flat steel inside at the light spot to balance the wheel.? I'm thinking if the balance plates are well rounded the tube would not care that its there. Or - will the tires be out of balance anyway, so it doesn't mater if the wheel is out of balance. If so, has anyone tried mounting a tire in various orientations to cancel out the wheel imbalance with the tire imbalance. i know its just a Model A but bouncing down the road is annoying. Like I said, I've read numerous threads so I'm aware of the various options such as beads, stick on weights etc.

I'd say not because once you put the tube and tire on it could be out of balance. need to balance once together. some tire shops are able to balance model A tires. Good luck.

[Synchro909]

Interesting idea! Once the plate is welded to the rim, it becomes part of the wheel, then, IMO, balancing the wheel after a tyre is fitted would be no different from any other wheel. Be careful that the welding does not change the shape of the wheel.

[Kurt in NJ]

having imbalanced wheel will allow positioning the tire to minimize balancing needed, possibly without any weight

[30Murray]

The closer you get to the center of the wheel the larger the weight has to be. It may only take a small amount of additional weight on the outer rim to balance the tire/rim combo, which you would have to do anyways.

[Hitman]

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I always do this. I straighten and balance the rims before I mount tires and tubes.

However, it doesn’t take much weight. Usually just running the welder a couple of inches in a line at most added the necessary weight. Another pass if it’s not enough. I’d never weld anything the the rim, just run beads of weld to get the weight. It should only take grams or an ounce to balance the rim.

[nkaminar]

The hubs and drums are not balanced. More modern cars have weights spot welded to the outside of the drums to balance those. I am not sure how that would work with the cast iron drums but if you want to be precise then it would be something to look in to.

[Gene F]

I agree with #2 post.

FYI, I was taught that the little red or green dot on the sidewall of the tire is the heavy spot of the tire before mounting. We (when I was young) always mounted the tire so that was adjacent to the valve stem. I don't know if they even do that any more.

I have the tape weights, and they are not a big deal. Not once has anyone ever commented about the weights on my wheels. Cyntrifical force works to also hold them on.

[JoeCB]

Interesting discussion... Perhaps mount the tube and tire, un- inflated. then statically balance the assembly by shifting the rotational position of the tire to minimize / eliminate imbalance. Inflating should not affect the outcome.

Joe B

[mrbilman]

Thanks for your input. Had not considered how much it would take yet.

[Pete]

It is NOT recommended to weld on steel wheels.
They are manufactured by roll forming which puts big stresses in the metal. Some wheels are normalized after forming, some are not.
If you do weld, it would be a good plan to magnaflux the wheel before use.
Be sure to check for radial distortion also.
That is the hardest to remove and the worst to tolerate.

[ronn]

heres a novel idea........


get rid of the bad ones and swap up to better ones.

[rotorwrench]

If any amount of weight is added to one point on a rim then it will take an equal amount of weight 180 degrees apart from the added weight to balance it out. A good bubble balancer can be used. Dynamic balance can be done if a local front end shop has the equipment to do it on the car.

[Rob Doe]

Balanced the two front wheels and tires using the left and right front spindles. It was my first time to try the manual method. I started with the bearing nut just a bit loose to get maximum sensitivity in the bearings and backed off any brake drag. The wheel and tire will continue for 25+ revolutions and easily reverse direction with minimum out of balance

Balanced the hub and drum. .5 ounce of stick on weights made it stop in random places around the drum.

Added only the wheel. The wheel required virtually no weights.

Added the tube and tire and had to add 4, 1/4 ounce stick on weights.

On the right side wheel and tire, the same procedure was repeated. The hub/drum required 1/2 ounce, the wheel none. The tube and tire was a different story. The heavy spot required 4.5 ounces to balance things. I removed the tire and left the tube on the wheel. I placed a good bit of air in the tube and attempted to balance. This required 4 ounces. What a surprise, the out of balance was the tube instead of the tire. The wheel and tire is balanced with 4.5 ounces. I have no explanation for the large amount of weights.

The stick on weights are on the back side of the wheels, applied to the sloped portion of the wheel, not the flatter, external, drop center portion of the wheel. The weights are still on the two wheels after a few hundred miles. The heavy wheel has three layers of 1/4 ounce weights. I don't expect these to stay on too long. This was a learning process. I will have another look at the problem and may attempt to find a better tube.

The car drives smoothly, on good roads, the headlights are steady at speeds of 50+. We normally drive 45-48 on good two lane highways or uncontrolled 4 lane ones.

[Ray in La Mesa]

I had a 21" wheel that I drilled 1/8" holes in the tubular edges to get 4 oz. of rust out. Neutralized what I couldn't get out & sealed the holes, then painted it. To balance it I put it on a bubble balancer & determined the amount I needed with used clip on lead weights. Then I made a mold of tin foil to match the drop center of the rim, melted the lead & poured it into the mold. Then I formed the new lead weight to the curve contour of the wheel & JB Welded it in the drop center. Got the wheel reasonably well balanced before I mounted the tire & tube. The pressure in the tube also helped hold the weight in place. Lots 'o miles w/ no problems & no welding on the wheel.