Trophies

[Bob Bidonde]

A Model "A" is advertised for sale, and in its description the seller mentions that the car is a show winner, and includes a photo with several trophies on a running board. Legally, do the trophies go with the car to the buyer? Morally, should the trophies go to the buyer with the car?

[Banditorama]

Legally: No

I don't think it's a question of morals either

I'd probably send them with the car. But, at the same time the guy put a lot of work into winning, so I wouldn't blame him for keeping them either. Buy it and win your own trophies

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

A Model "A" is advertised for sale, and in its description the seller mentions that the car is a show winner, and includes a photo with several trophies on a running board. Legally, do the trophies go with the car to the buyer? Morally, should the trophies go to the buyer with the car?

Bob, definitely a controversial topic. Coming from a professional who participated in the ISCA show car world back in the early 1980s (some pics below of me and one of the show cars I built some 40+ years ago), I have seen this topic debated several times. I think the consensus was did winning the award add value to the vehicle? If so, they go with the vehicle to corroborate the pedigree the vehicle has.

For example, if a vehicle won Grande Champion in a competition series, part of the value of that sale is that the vehicle has a pedigree. Alternatively, Ricky Stenhouse won the Daytona 500 with his Camaro however he keeps the trophy however the vehicle will sit at the museum for a year. In that series (-and most competition series) the trophy is awarded to the person and not the vehicle. So in reality, the trophies on most levels are just tokens and do not really add value to the vehicle. Therefore those generally remain with the owner unless the sale of the vehicle is negotiated where the trophy, -or trophies remains with the vehicle.

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[Seth Swoboda]

Who would want a bunch of plastic junk trophies?

[rackops]

There was a facebook thread about this not long ago. I was actually surprised at the range of opinions that came up in the thread.

My personal opinion is that the awards should convey with the car. My first Model A had trophies like that and, while they didn't do anything for anyone, they were nice to display with the car (at least in my opinion).

Quite a few people have the opposite and just as valid theory: it is the restorer who put in the blood, sweat, tears, and money to get the car to where it was and win the awards, so shouldn't they be the ones to keep them?

One person mentioned that they couldn't sell their car until they removed the awards from the radiator. I kind of found that tough to swallow...but there are people who really aren't concerned about an award-winning car, even if that car had previously won titles on a national scale.

Awards, for me, are kind of a pedigree with the car. If I had the option of buying two cars that were the same, but one was a Henry Ford award winner...I'd definitely opt for the latter. I like the fact that the car had been looked at thoroughly by a number of unbiased eyes and they basically gave their "stamp of approval" that the restoration was as close to perfect as you could get. Then again...I'm one of those people who believe if you're doing a restoration, you get it as correct as possible, even if the car's going to be a driver. But...that's me and my weird take on life, which is not the same as everyone else's.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by rackops

There was a facebook thread about this not long ago. I was actually surprised at the range of opinions that came up in the thread.

My personal opinion is that the awards should convey with the car. My first Model A had trophies like that and, while they didn't do anything for anyone, they were nice to display with the car (at least in my opinion).

Quite a few people have the opposite and just as valid theory: it is the restorer who put in the blood, sweat, tears, and money to get the car to where it was and win the awards, so shouldn't they be the ones to keep them?

One person mentioned that they couldn't sell their car until they removed the awards from the radiator. I kind of found that tough to swallow...but there are people who really aren't concerned about an award-winning car, even if that car had previously won titles on a national scale.

Awards, for me, are kind of a pedigree with the car. If I had the option of buying two cars that were the same, but one was a Henry Ford award winner...I'd definitely opt for the latter. I like the fact that the car had been looked at thoroughly by a number of unbiased eyes and they basically gave their "stamp of approval" that the restoration was as close to perfect as you could get. Then again...I'm one of those people who believe if you're doing a restoration, you get it as correct as possible, even if the car's going to be a driver. But...that's me and my weird take on life, which is not the same as everyone else's.

Can I play Devil's Advocate on this? Most people who tout their vehicle being a "trophy winner" are generally speaking of the local car club's Saturday show where the vehicle is likely being judged on beauty or aesthetics. So does winning at these local shows really add to the value of the vehicle or build a Pedigree?

Or, ...even when a vehicle is sold as it has scored 500 points at a Model-A National Meet, I find that often times this is when a Model-A has been adjudicated in Touring Class. Does a 500 pt. score in Touring Class really add to the value of a vehicle? Honestly, to me it doesn't. Does a vehicle scoring 500 pts. in Touring Class really indicate/substantiate whether the car is actually roadworthy enough for 'touring'. Again, to me it doesn't. What I DO think it does is potentially mislead a prospective Buyer.

So while everyone is entitles to an opinion, my view is the trophies that were displayed with your car made you feel better about the vehicle, but didn't really convey to others how the trophy proved the vehicle was better. Going full circle, I would think this would emphasize the importance where the trophy(s) were to remain with the person who displayed the vehicle and actually received the reward as a memento of their experience with that car on that day.

[Will N]

Most of these kinds of trophies are likely from local car shows where the winners are chosen by the mayor of the city, or the owner of the business who is sponsoring the show. In other words, people who are not qualified to judge a car. They signify that the car is an eye grabbing color and was nice and shiny on the day of the show. They don't tell you anything about the authenticity of the car.

[alexiskai]

Legally, it's going to depend on the sale contract. A contract can be a formal document, e.g., a bill of sale, or it may just consist of the written communications between the parties. A court would look to determine whether the buyer reasonably expected the trophies and other accoutrements to convey with the asset. Did the seller include other items like spare parts, tools, other documentation, other items of provenance, etc.

There's no social convention one way or the other that I'm aware of. The parties to the deal should just make sure to communicate their expectations clearly.

[LeonardS]

I would have no interest in someone else’s trophies.

[ronn]

Who would want a bunch of plastic junk trophies?

we dont need no stinkin badges......!

[Oldbluoval]

Ronn and Seth….yep agreed

[mass A man]

The trophies should stay with the owner in my opinion. I know---The local clubs and show organizers award trophies that may not be the highest quality (unless they charge a huge entrance fee), but they are for the inner meaning--How much do you think the U.S. Government pays to make a Purple Heart medal? Maybe a buck?--But it has a very special inner meaning.

[31a]

I believe the trophies shouldstay with the owner, I personally would not want someone's trophies.

[nkaminar]

I'll take the car. You can keep the trophies.

[8EL]

So the trophies I won competing in stock car racing events I consider my achievements, they stay with me.....Don't see any difference with those won in car shows. That machine did nothing until someone spent the time and effort to make her capable of whatever is being awarded.

[kbinde2]

I can offer an "opinion", as one who has a vehicle advertised on FB.
I have taken home trophies from local car shows, and display them on a shelf in the garage, along with "plastic" hardware from other vehicles that I have owned over the years, more as a reminder of "Ya, I remember when I had that one, never should have let it go"..!! I'm sure they will be on that shelf when the '29 vacates that side of the garage. I see no legal or moral issue, or who exactly would want them.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by kbinde2

I can offer an "opinion", as one who has a vehicle advertised on FB.
I have taken home trophies from local car shows, and display them on a shelf in the garage, along with "plastic" hardware from other vehicles that I have owned over the years, more as a reminder of "Ya, I remember when I had that one, never should have let it go"..!! I'm sure they will be on that shelf when the '29 vacates that side of the garage. I see no legal or moral issue, or who exactly would want them.

I could have written this one word for word. I agree completely.

Enjoy.

[Planojc]

Never could figure out why someone would spend thousands of dollars to win a $10. trophy.

[ronn]

Never could figure out why someone would spend thousands of dollars to win a $10. trophy.

vanity.......

[Ron Blissit]

Pebble Beach trophys are a lot more than $10.00