Miracle Juice

[mrtexas]

I'm getting ready for my new engine sometime soon. I'm checking out the cooling system which seems to run 190F all the time with a brand new Brassworks radiator. I timed the Mallory a while back to what FS Ignitions recommended, I think.

First was draining the radiator and putting in 100% water. This seemed to reduce temperature to 185F.

Next was adding miracle juice which seemed to reduce it again to 180F:


I run a Mallory distributor. I ordered a kit to set the advance and curve, $50 for a few springs. Today I pulled the distributor and found out the advance was set at only 20degrees. I reset it to as much as I could get or 28degrees. I also set the rate of advance at 20degrees/1,000 rpm which I think is a fast advance. Well I went for a ride today and I'm at 190F. Today was a couple degrees hotter than usual at 95-97F vs 90-93F normally here in SE Texas.

Oh, well, a good exercise anyway. Next up is advancing the timing. I don't get any knock as it is set.

One good lesson learned is to check out the advance and curve on a used Mallory that you buy. I've run this distributor for a year or two without checking.

[CWPASADENA]

WOW;

It sounds to me that you have a very agressive timing curve. I do not know but you may have too much advance already. I am not sure what a Model A engine likes for advance but I do know you can have too much which results in a loss of power and still not get into a situation where you are picking up detonation.

I am sure there are people out there who know what an optimum timing curve should be for the Model A Engine. I guess what I am trying to say, "If a little is good, a whole lot may not be better". I know what a flathead should be but short of getting onto a Dyno and determening what timing should be a various RPMs, I would not know what a good curve for a Model A should be.

Chris

['29wagon]

I can not understand why these antique cooling systems keep getting filled with anti-freeze . I'm no pro but isn't distilled water and a choice lubricating additive good enough , with the regular maintenance flush for inspection a few times a year ? correct me if i'm wrong but 100 deg in texas , who needs anti freeze ?

[mrtexas]

Nope, no need for anti-freeze here. Our freezes last only a few hours a couple times a year. And my garage never freezes.

Originally Posted by '29wagon

I can not understand why these antique cooling systems keep getting filled with anti-freeze . I'm no pro but isn't distilled water and a choice lubricating additive good enough , with the regular maintenance flush for inspection a few times a year ? correct me if i'm wrong but 100 deg in texas , who needs anti freeze ?

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by '29wagon

I can not understand why these antique cooling systems keep getting filled with anti-freeze . I'm no pro but isn't distilled water and a choice lubricating additive good enough , with the regular maintenance flush for inspection a few times a year ? correct me if i'm wrong but 100 deg in texas , who needs anti freeze ?

I think we forget that what we call antifreeze is does than just keep the fluid from freezing. This is from Prestone;

Prestone® 50/50 Ready-to-use Prediluted Extended Life
Antifreeze/ Coolant features a blend of 50% antifreeze/coolant for temperature and corrosion protection and 50% demineralized water
for heat transfer protection.

[Ron in Quincy]

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I put in one quart of coolant just for rust protection. Am I wrong, I have always been under the impression that coolant , in addition to protection for freezing, just raises the boiling but does nothing for making the engine run cooler ?
When freezing weather arrives, I live at 3500' elevation,
I increase the percentage of coolant for freeze protection to 20 below.

Ron

[vinepro]

one of the things that people overlook when rebuilding there engines is to clean out the scale in the block. you will need to use a coat hanger to shove in the water passages to get the scale out and then flush with the hose real good. When the shop cleans your block they will not be able to get the scale out with a wash only.

[Rich in Tucson]

Some buddies and I have tried various commercial "rust inhibitors" or corrosion protectors in pure water and nothing worked as well as Prestone or similar ethylene glycol antifreeze for corrosion protection. Always the coolant was orange after a few months with anything other than antifreeze. Me, I like green since I don't get to see it much.

Cooling here is not a problem (often well over 100°) if the timing is right and the radiator and block are good.

Old cars from AZ are often advertised as "rust free" and superficially they may be compared to PA but there is a good chance that the head and block are rusted badly if all they have seen is water.

[Preacher]

Excellent point! when I had both my engines rebuilt they had been hot tanked and cleaned. (seperate rebuilds) when I put them on my engine stand I used wires, engine brushes and a high pressure washer. I didn't i was EVER going to stop getting the junk out of the water jacket, especially around #4. no heat problems.

[Larry Brumfield]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

I'm getting ready for my new engine sometime soon. I'm checking out the cooling system which seems to run 190F all the time with a brand new Brassworks radiator. I timed the Mallory a while back to what FS Ignitions recommended, I think.

First was draining the radiator and putting in 100% water. This seemed to reduce temperature to 185F.

Next was adding miracle juice which seemed to reduce it again to 180F:


I run a Mallory distributor. I ordered a kit to set the advance and curve, $50 for a few springs. Today I pulled the distributor and found out the advance was set at only 20degrees. I reset it to as much as I could get or 28degrees. I also set the rate of advance at 20degrees/1,000 rpm which I think is a fast advance. Well I went for a ride today and I'm at 190F. Today was a couple degrees hotter than usual at 95-97F vs 90-93F normally here in SE Texas.

Oh, well, a good exercise anyway. Next up is advancing the timing. I don't get any knock as it is set.

One good lesson learned is to check out the advance and curve on a used Mallory that you buy. I've run this distributor for a year or two without checking.

Mr. Texas,

I have the feeling that you're going to be e-mailing me about timing issues when you get your Brumfield Head installed. No problem, it's not complicated.

More than likely your cooling problem will be over as well. But let's put that aside for right now. Too many variables make things harder to figure out.

Do you have an original distributor and all the set up to run it?

Take out that Mallory and try the original distributor set up for awhile and see how the temperature goes. You might be in for a happy surprise.


Larry B.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Rich in Tucson

Some buddies and I have tried various commercial "rust inhibitors" or corrosion protectors in pure water and nothing worked as well as Prestone or similar ethylene glycol antifreeze for corrosion protection. Always the coolant was orange after a few months with anything other than antifreeze. Me, I like green since I don't get to see it much.

Cooling here is not a problem (often well over 100°) if the timing is right and the radiator and block are good.

Old cars from AZ are often advertised as "rust free" and superficially they may be compared to PA but there is a good chance that the head and block are rusted badly if all they have seen is water.

I've been told that ethylene gycol antifreeze can actually acclerate corosion if its old or has been diluted with water to much. Not sure of the chemistry or the validity of this. I to have no real need for antifreeze but run Penrite Coolant ( non ethylene glycol) Additive for corrosion protection.

[Old182]

Good discussion. I think the most important thing for our engines is rust prevention and antifoaming agents - both found in good branded antifreezes. Lubrication is not an issue for Model As because our water pumps are externally lubricated. The attachments (if they come through) show the famous (or not so famous) vee-curve for ethylene glycol. It's interesting that maximum freeze protection comes in at 68% EG, then goes up again. Straight EG will "freeze" but forms a gel-like glop that won't break your engine. The 50/50 blend most of us use in the north probably came about because it's easy to remember and will work under most conditions. The other table shows where your boiling point will go with various amounts of EG - it might be useful to some.

[Larry Brumfield]

Originally Posted by Karl

I've been told that ethylene gycol antifreeze can actually acclerate corosion if its old or has been diluted with water to much. Not sure of the chemistry or the validity of this. I to have no real need for antifreeze but run Penrite Coolant ( non ethylene glycol) Additive for corrosion protection.

Yes, ethylene glycol becomes acidic over time and corrosion accelerates. That's one of the reasons why it's supposed to be changed.


Larry B.