The Ford Barn

BillLee/Chandler, TX · 07-19-2010, 06:52 AM

Have been into the "A" thing for a few years now. One of the recurring threads is the advice to mount the drums to the hubs and then get the drums turned so that they are concentric with the hubs.

I also know that later model drum brakes did NOT use swaged lugs but had the drums held to the hubs by the clamping force of the lug nuts when the wheel was mounted.

If the "Model A way" was so very important for our cars, how on earth did the non-swaged/non-trued mounting mechanism work for most all later model drum brakes? Is there magic in there somewhere?

1931 flamingo · 07-19-2010, 07:07 AM

I would think it had something to do with going to hydraulic brakes from mechanical., ability to manufacure drums to closer tolerances, location of studs, etc. They still arc ground the linings to fit the drums, and adjjusted the shoes, but hyd might over ride (more force/pressure) any sloppiness. It's early and I may be all wet on this. JMO
Paul in CT

Keith True · 07-19-2010, 07:20 AM

I did a set for myself years ago to see if it would work out.I used modern serrated studs,and turned the shoulders down just enough to catch the drum.I used to check them regularly,but kind of forgot about it in the last 10 years or so.I always wondered if the drums would chuck back and forth and shear the studs,but I have seen no sign of it.It might be more of a problem with an old pressed tin drum and the old pressed tin wheel center flexing around.I ordered(and got)the drums without the taper for the swedging cut into the stud holes.Time will tell I guess.I did it in the mid-90's to my pickup.

kenparker · 07-19-2010, 07:24 AM

The modern "non-swaged" lugs still had to be pressed in. They had to be tight enough to prevent the lug from moving backward as one began to thread the nut and to keep from turning as it was tightened.

CWPASADENA · 07-19-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenparker

The modern "non-swaged" lugs still had to be pressed in. They had to be tight enough to prevent the lug from moving backward as one began to thread the nut and to keep from turning as it was tightened.

I AGREE;

If a brake drum has a good regester on the hub, there is really no reason it can not be a slip on fit onto the studs. Lites of cars are designed this way. HOWEVER, unless a person wants to use a pressed in serrated type stud, there is really no good way to keep the stud from turning in the hub when you are tightening or loosening the lug nuts.

Some people solve this problem by welding the head of the stud to the hub but I really do not like to see that.

I do not know of a stud available that has serrations of the proper size to fit the hub and not be way undersize where it passes thru the brake drum.

Usually, a person will get into this only once on his Model A. I think it is just easier to have someone with the proper equiptment take care of it.

Just my opinion,

Chris

Keith True · 07-19-2010, 10:44 AM

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We used to have an outfit here called Brake and Electric.They were heavy truck people,but if Euclid,Wagner,or a dozen others made it they had catalogs and would get it for you.The salesman for them that used to come to the garage dropped off a catalog for light duty hardware.I sat down with it,and the studs were listed by sizes not applications.I picked out some that had the serrated portion just a little longer than the thickness of the hub and drum combined.They also had a head that was very small,and fit down into the countersunk holes in the backs of the hubs.Not quite flush,but close enough.I had to turn just a little off the shank to make them flush with the drum surface.I also had to sacrifice a half dozen or so to get that measurement figured.They were under a dollar each back then.I kept the Euclid number just in case it worked out,I just have to remember where I hid it.I was thinking mid 90's,but now I am thinking it may have even been late 80's.I want to say the drums were around $68. each,and they were way undersized and left for you to finish.That chassis has had a couple of different bodies on it,it is sitting outside the cellar door right now and will be getting a 31 pickup cab and bed on it next winter.I will be looking at the drums then to see how they are holding up,or not holding up.

07-19-2010, 06:52 AM	#1
BillLee/Chandler, TX Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: The sticks of east Texas Posts: 474	Is there magic in there? Have been into the "A" thing for a few years now. One of the recurring threads is the advice to mount the drums to the hubs and then get the drums turned so that they are concentric with the hubs. I also know that later model drum brakes did NOT use swaged lugs but had the drums held to the hubs by the clamping force of the lug nuts when the wheel was mounted. If the "Model A way" was so very important for our cars, how on earth did the non-swaged/non-trued mounting mechanism work for most all later model drum brakes? Is there magic in there somewhere? __________________ Bill Lee http://www.CedarCreekAs.org

07-19-2010, 07:07 AM	#2
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Is there magic in there? I would think it had something to do with going to hydraulic brakes from mechanical., ability to manufacure drums to closer tolerances, location of studs, etc. They still arc ground the linings to fit the drums, and adjjusted the shoes, but hyd might over ride (more force/pressure) any sloppiness. It's early and I may be all wet on this. JMO Paul in CT

07-19-2010, 07:20 AM	#3
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,989	Re: Is there magic in there? I did a set for myself years ago to see if it would work out.I used modern serrated studs,and turned the shoulders down just enough to catch the drum.I used to check them regularly,but kind of forgot about it in the last 10 years or so.I always wondered if the drums would chuck back and forth and shear the studs,but I have seen no sign of it.It might be more of a problem with an old pressed tin drum and the old pressed tin wheel center flexing around.I ordered(and got)the drums without the taper for the swedging cut into the stud holes.Time will tell I guess.I did it in the mid-90's to my pickup.

07-19-2010, 07:24 AM	#4
kenparker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Van, Texas Posts: 1,122	Re: Is there magic in there? The modern "non-swaged" lugs still had to be pressed in. They had to be tight enough to prevent the lug from moving backward as one began to thread the nut and to keep from turning as it was tightened.

07-19-2010, 10:44 AM	#6
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,989	Re: Is there magic in there? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) We used to have an outfit here called Brake and Electric.They were heavy truck people,but if Euclid,Wagner,or a dozen others made it they had catalogs and would get it for you.The salesman for them that used to come to the garage dropped off a catalog for light duty hardware.I sat down with it,and the studs were listed by sizes not applications.I picked out some that had the serrated portion just a little longer than the thickness of the hub and drum combined.They also had a head that was very small,and fit down into the countersunk holes in the backs of the hubs.Not quite flush,but close enough.I had to turn just a little off the shank to make them flush with the drum surface.I also had to sacrifice a half dozen or so to get that measurement figured.They were under a dollar each back then.I kept the Euclid number just in case it worked out,I just have to remember where I hid it.I was thinking mid 90's,but now I am thinking it may have even been late 80's.I want to say the drums were around $68. each,and they were way undersized and left for you to finish.That chassis has had a couple of different bodies on it,it is sitting outside the cellar door right now and will be getting a 31 pickup cab and bed on it next winter.I will be looking at the drums then to see how they are holding up,or not holding up.