Breaking water outlet

[RyanB]

I am sad to say that I broke my first water outlet installing the head on my 1929 engine I have rebuilt. I used a thin gasket I made and made sure the surface of the outlet was flat but it still broke at 45 lbs. I was able to find another outlet on another engine that I will try and install tomorrow. I am mortified that I am going to break another one. It is a sound I don't ever want to hear again. I would appreciate any advice on how I should install this to avoid breaking another. I don't know if I can torque those two front bolts less than the rest or what I should do. I have started to torque in sequence from 35, 45, to 55 lbs.
Thanks guys.

[Slantwindshield]

Forget the gasket, use some liquid gasket from a tube. NO more broken outlets. Howard

[glenn in camino]

If you're building a show engine with the correct copper water outlet gasket, file a little metal off the center portion of the water outlet, and use a good coat of clear silicone to seal the joint. I broke one many years ago but haven't broken any since.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yes, I try to file the outlet slightly concave in the center, and haven't broken any this way. Whether you use the copper gasket or just silicone this same method works for me.

[700rpm]

If it's not for show, use the match trick. I have never broken one since doing that.

[RyanB]

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Thanks a million. I will give it another try today with your suggestions.

[canoesolo68]

Hi all, New member here. I Am wondering what the old match trick is. Broke one yesterday with copper gasket & don't want to brake one today. Any info helpful. Thank you, Jim

[Mitch//pa]

copper gasket looks better and works
it is also thick enough to compensate for any unevenness

[canoesolo68]

I broke the outlet yesterday @ 50lbs. & was wondering what the match trick was. Thank you, Jim

[Pilotdave]

canoesolo68, the "match trick" is to lay two paper matches across the ear portion of the mating surface of the head. Position each match outside the head bolt. I've done this twice and am batting 1.000!

[canoesolo68]

Thank you Pilotdave. UPS will be here in an hour. Canoesolo66

[1wonton]

I've used the match "trick" many times, it works.

[CarlG]

Just use a thin coat of RTV with no gasket.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I bought an ALUJIMUM re-pro neck fur Minerva. I "WUNDER" if they're LESS prone to breakin'???
Bill W.

[FRANK PKNY]

Forget about the torque business. even with a gasket just tighten till it feels tight. if you want a gasket use one if for show only. otherwise no gasket just good rtv . you can always go back at a later time and tweak it a bit. the story here is don't over tighten the dam thing. Better to go back after it settles and give it a light tweak.

[Terry, NJ]

I took a skim cut off mine in a Bridgeport. I just couldn't live with the surface that was there and the possibility that it might be "Crowned" at some point in it's 84 years. Then as has been suggested, I used no gasket, just Permatex. 60 lbs of torque. No problems!
Terry

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by FRANK PKNY

Forget about the torque business. even with a gasket just tighten till it feels tight. if you want a gasket use one if for show only. otherwise no gasket just good rtv . you can always go back at a later time and tweak it a bit. the story here is don't over tighten the dam thing. Better to go back after it settles and give it a light tweak.

Wait a minute! These are two of the bolts that hold the head on and really need to be torqued the same as all the other head bolts. Otherwise you are going to have problems with the head gasket blowing out, or even the head itself warping from the pressures not being even.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Ryan,

Never broke one either; however, was cautioned over 55 years ago by an elder mechanic that improper head gasket "sequence" over-tightening is the main cause of breaking Model A water outlets.

1. First: The sequence of tightening a head gasket is from inside-to-outside to press or squeeze the head gasket outwards as opposed to inwards.

2. Second: It is important to tighten head bolts incrementally, (especially with slightly warped heads), little or a few foot-pounds at a time. Maybe like tighten all first to 20 foot-pounds, then all to 30 foot pounds, 40 foot pounds, 50 foot pounds, & finally 55 foot pounds.

3. If all are done quickly in recommended sequence, not a little at a time, from 0-55 foot pounds, when re-checking #1 center head bolt for the second time, it may now be at 20 foot pounds, so a great deal of bolt stress was placed on for example #13 on the front end of the head at the water outlet.

3. The sequence for tightening heads recommends that the water outlet gets tightened on the tail end, i.e., #11 and #13 of #14 & which can cause increased stress on these head bolts if done quickly from 0 - 55 foot pounds.

4. Maybe look at it this way:

A. Jack up a house, up high, on both ends first ..... now the center jack will have the most stress when subsequently lifting.

B. And then try jacking up the middle up high first ..... now the two end jacks will have the most stress when lifting.

5. I doubt if "experienced" Ford workers broke many water outlets with Ford's thick copper gaskets ...... and as far as we know, paper matches and silicone sealant were not available.

Hope this helps.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi Ryan,

Never broke one either; however, was cautioned over 55 years ago by an elder mechanic that improper head gasket "sequence" over-tightening is the main cause of breaking Model A water outlets.

1. First: The sequence of tightening a head gasket is from inside-to-outside to press or squeeze the head gasket outwards as opposed to inwards.

2. Second: It is important to tighten head bolts incrementally, (especially with slightly warped heads), little or a few foot-pounds at a time. Maybe like tighten all first to 20 foot-pounds, then all to 30 foot pounds, 40 foot pounds, 50 foot pounds, & finally 55 foot pounds.

3. If all are done quickly in recommended sequence, not a little at a time, from 0-55 foot pounds, when re-checking #1 center head bolt for the second time, it may now be at 20 foot pounds, so a great deal of bolt stress was placed on for example #13 on the front end of the head at the water outlet.

3. The sequence for tightening heads recommends that the water outlet gets tightened on the tail end, i.e., #11 and #13 of #14 & which can cause increased stress on these head bolts if done quickly from 0 - 55 foot pounds.

4. Maybe look at it this way:

A. Jack up a house, up high, on both ends first ..... now the center jack will have the most stress when subsequently lifting.

B. And then try jacking up the middle up high first ..... now the two end jacks will have the most stress when lifting.

5. I doubt if "experienced" Ford workers broke many water outlets with Ford's thick copper gaskets ...... and as far as we know, paper matches and silicone sealant were not available.

Hope this helps.

correct they never broke one that is why you use the correct parts to do the job...
i need all the points i can get

[hardtimes]

Hey Ryan,
This exact subject was just discussed extensively in a RECENT thread. Did you have a chance to read that thread advice.
Anyway, IMO, put just a 'skim' of some kind of sillycone on one of the two mating surfaces...and you will not break, unless there is a defect. Luck has nothing to do with it, eh

[partridgekelley]

I got so pXXXed off after breaking a couple of the coolant outlets I ordered and installed a new outlet/thermostat housing from Vintage Precision Inc. It won't do for a show car as it is quite different from the original outlet. But it works for me. These are built to except a temp .sender and a hose fitting for a heater. Their number is; 1-800-486-0021 , and they go for about $114.00
shipped. I have them on 2 of my 3 model A's.

[CarlG]

Like PK said, you won't break this one: