The Ford Barn

Oldford59 · 05-01-2022, 12:03 PM

Touching base on ring gear installed.
Reading previous posts does it make sense to spend some extra time and pin ring gear at 3 locations with set screws to prevent walking off flywheel.

Brentwood Bob · 05-01-2022, 12:32 PM

New ring gear should not in my opinion. I shrunk fit a replacement.

chrs1961815 · 05-01-2022, 01:38 PM

Depends if you are eunning a 12 volt system. If so the starter beats the hell out of it and it will move forward. Stock it should stay put.

The Master Cylinder · 05-01-2022, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrs1961815

Depends if you are eunning a 12 volt system. If so the starter beats the hell out of it and it will move forward. Stock it should stay put.

I have been running 12v for years and I have never had it "beat the hell out of it".

johnbuckley · 05-01-2022, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

I have been running 12v for years and I have never had it "beat the hell out of it".

x2, never had a problem after twenty years with 12v

jack backer · 05-01-2022, 02:21 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Not only 12v but running a 6 v starter.. and a modern Bendix..

Fhane · 05-01-2022, 05:46 PM

If 12 Volts oi so hard on the ring gear, starter and Bendix, why not just stay with 6 Volts?

nkaminar · 05-01-2022, 06:02 PM

The ring gear is a tight shrink fit on the flywheel. I cannot see where it can move even with running a 6 volt starter on 12 volts. But the gear teeth can get chipped. Convert the starter over to 12 volt with 12 volt field windings or buy a 12 volt starter.

People in the Model T world use a resistor in series with the 6 volt starter running on 12 volts to reduce the torque. They use a spare Bendix spring as the resistor. I suspect the impedance of the coiled spring helps too. Putting a large iron part inside the coil would increase the impedance.

I just installed a new ring gear on my flywheel for my Burtz engine. I had to heat it up on my gas grill for a while to get it really hot and then work quickly. I used a brass hammer.

Synchro909 · 05-01-2022, 06:09 PM

Running a 6v starter on 12v is asking for trouble. Not only does it give the ring gear a hard time but the starter won't take it. There are many who say it does - and they do, for a while. I recently converted my brother in law's starter to 12v after it had been running on 12v for too long. Just like the original 1/2" shafts couldn't take 6v, the 5/8" shaft couldn't take 12v and was bent. For the life of me, I can't understand why anybody does it.
As for staying on 6v, that's fine if you never go far from home. Try being in a small town miles from anywhere and the coil fails. Try getting a 6v coil. Same goes for light globes, battery etc and try running a GPS or CB radio or dash cam etc on 6v. We are on 12v and do all of those things with ease.

Tom Endy · 05-01-2022, 06:47 PM

I am of the opinion that there are some reproduction starter rings around that are too big. A number of years ago I had a new starter ring gear installed at a machine shop for my 6-volt Victoria when I had the flywheel balanced and the surface cleaned up. Soon after it started walking off to the front until it finally jammed. I had to take the starter off and tap it back against the stop. it continued to do this until I finally pulled the flywheel off and took it back to the machine shop and had it pinned.

Since then, I have all starter rings pinned on any Model A I have been involved with. It certainly can't hurt anything, and it is good insurance that it is not going to walk off.

Henry did not think this one out too well, he should have put the stop in front instead of behind.

Tom Endy

Synchro909 · 05-01-2022, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

I am of the opinion that there are some reproduction starter rings around that are too big. A number of years ago I had a new starter ring gear installed at a machine shop for my 6-volt Victoria when I had the flywheel balanced and the surface cleaned up. Soon after it started walking off to the front until it finally jammed. I had to take the starter off and tap it back against the stop. it continued to do this until I finally pulled the flywheel off and took it back to the machine shop and had it pinned.

Since then, I have all starter rings pinned on any Model A I have been involved with. It certainly can't hurt anything, and it is good insurance that it is not going to walk off.

Henry did not think this one out too well, he should have put the stop in front instead of behind.

Tom Endy

I agree 110% and have been criticised for it. It seems some think Henry could do no wrong but I have a list as long as my arm.

Dodge · 05-02-2022, 11:33 PM

You can also use loctite "wicking" loctite made for assembled pieces.
That will help keep it in place.

johnbuckley · 05-03-2022, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

People in the Model T world use a resistor in series with the 6 volt starter running on 12 volts to reduce the torque. They use a spare Bendix spring as the resistor. I suspect the impedance of the coiled spring helps too. Putting a large iron part inside the coil would increase the impedance.

I don't want to hi jack the thread, but does popping a Bendix spring in series really work???? I cannot understand how a Bendix coil could really help... welding rod wire with suffient resistance yes, but 12 inch or so of thick low resistance steel made into a coil, hmm yet to be convinced

05-01-2022, 12:03 PM	#1
Oldford59 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 47	New Ring Gear Installed Touching base on ring gear installed. Reading previous posts does it make sense to spend some extra time and pin ring gear at 3 locations with set screws to prevent walking off flywheel.

05-01-2022, 12:32 PM	#2
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,276	Re: New Ring Gear Installed New ring gear should not in my opinion. I shrunk fit a replacement.

05-01-2022, 01:38 PM	#3
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: New Ring Gear Installed Depends if you are eunning a 12 volt system. If so the starter beats the hell out of it and it will move forward. Stock it should stay put. __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

05-01-2022, 02:21 PM	#6
jack backer BANNED Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Chenango Bridge NY Posts: 433	Re: New Ring Gear Installed Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Not only 12v but running a 6 v starter.. and a modern Bendix..

05-01-2022, 05:46 PM	#7
Fhane Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stuart Florida Posts: 149	Re: New Ring Gear Installed If 12 Volts oi so hard on the ring gear, starter and Bendix, why not just stay with 6 Volts?

05-01-2022, 06:02 PM	#8
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,966	Re: New Ring Gear Installed The ring gear is a tight shrink fit on the flywheel. I cannot see where it can move even with running a 6 volt starter on 12 volts. But the gear teeth can get chipped. Convert the starter over to 12 volt with 12 volt field windings or buy a 12 volt starter. People in the Model T world use a resistor in series with the 6 volt starter running on 12 volts to reduce the torque. They use a spare Bendix spring as the resistor. I suspect the impedance of the coiled spring helps too. Putting a large iron part inside the coil would increase the impedance. I just installed a new ring gear on my flywheel for my Burtz engine. I had to heat it up on my gas grill for a while to get it really hot and then work quickly. I used a brass hammer. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 05-01-2022 at 06:09 PM.

05-01-2022, 06:09 PM	#9
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,535	Re: New Ring Gear Installed Running a 6v starter on 12v is asking for trouble. Not only does it give the ring gear a hard time but the starter won't take it. There are many who say it does - and they do, for a while. I recently converted my brother in law's starter to 12v after it had been running on 12v for too long. Just like the original 1/2" shafts couldn't take 6v, the 5/8" shaft couldn't take 12v and was bent. For the life of me, I can't understand why anybody does it. As for staying on 6v, that's fine if you never go far from home. Try being in a small town miles from anywhere and the coil fails. Try getting a 6v coil. Same goes for light globes, battery etc and try running a GPS or CB radio or dash cam etc on 6v. We are on 12v and do all of those things with ease. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

05-01-2022, 06:47 PM	#10
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,134	Re: New Ring Gear Installed I am of the opinion that there are some reproduction starter rings around that are too big. A number of years ago I had a new starter ring gear installed at a machine shop for my 6-volt Victoria when I had the flywheel balanced and the surface cleaned up. Soon after it started walking off to the front until it finally jammed. I had to take the starter off and tap it back against the stop. it continued to do this until I finally pulled the flywheel off and took it back to the machine shop and had it pinned. Since then, I have all starter rings pinned on any Model A I have been involved with. It certainly can't hurt anything, and it is good insurance that it is not going to walk off. Henry did not think this one out too well, he should have put the stop in front instead of behind. Tom Endy

05-02-2022, 11:33 PM	#12
Dodge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sonoma, CA. Posts: 1,499	Re: New Ring Gear Installed You can also use loctite "wicking" loctite made for assembled pieces. That will help keep it in place.