Why the insert fabric roof and not steel

[Aok]

Just wondering why the Model A closed cars had the insert roof and not solid steel.

[Jim Mason]

I believe the tech needed to make the compound curves and welding weren't developed until few years after the A

[ronn]

I believe Henry was just trying to save a buck. He was good at that!

[peters180a/170b]

Henry was cheap !

[Mitch//pa]

it helped fuel mileage

[Gary WA]

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Depression they need the steel!

[Aok]

Thanks Jim I do remember reading that now that I see it again, the humor is also good

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Also, with the rough roads, and the frames ability to twist, no flat piece of steel of that size and position, would remain straight and flat for very long!

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Aok

Just wondering why the Model A closed cars had the insert roof and not solid steel.

Besides the steel stamping issues already noted, it was the standard in the industry for the time period. If you spent 17k on a new Springfield built Rolls Royce you would get the same thing except the roof covering was long grain GENUINE leather.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Ford was a few years behind in the full steel roof. Chevrolet and others had it before Ford.
MIKE

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

Ford was a few years behind in the full steel roof. Chevrolet and others had it before Ford.
MIKE

And what year would that be?

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

And what year would that be?

Of the "Big-3" passenger cars, Chevrolet introduced the "Turret Top" in 1936. Although competitors claimed the all-steel roof would "drum" and damage passengers' hearing, Ford and Plymouth followed suit in 1937. There probably are other makes with steel tops that preceded Ford and possibly Chevrolet.

Interestingly, despite the steel roof, Chevrolet continued wood-framed bodies through 1936, years after competitors had pretty much abandoned them.

[Greg out west]

Hi AOK,,,



Jim & Marco had it right. Wasn't Ford first with the "Steel top" late 31 pick-up ? Wasn't it built by Bud ?....


Greg out West,

[Terry, NJ]

I always heard it was the fact that they hadn't figured out how to stamp a full steel top.
Yet, they didn't want to weld the the tops in and they were very good at body welding. consider the welds in the rear of the body. They could have simply extended this bead up and over the full body with out too much trouble. The hand work needed for the manufacture of the fabric top was time consuming and expensive. It wasn't the depression, it didn't happen for another two years (1929) with the worst or low point at July, 1932. So why didn't Henry give them steel tops? I dunno! Probably it was just another example of being stuck in time. They had always done it that way it worked pretty well. I believe the tops outlasted the engines in most cases, so maybe that was the deciding factor.
Terry

[Deluxe Delivery]

I have heard that it was considered cooler. Air conditioning being a ways off yet, the common thinking was that a steel top would be like sitting in a tuna can and would bake the passengers. After testing, it was determined that it was indeed cooler with a cloth top but only by a minor amount. Also keep in mind that we were only a few decades removed from carriages and buggies. Engineers, stylists and workers were just doing what had always been done. No one questioned it because it was just the way it was done.

[WTSHNN]

The Budd steel-top pickup was introduced in late '31 (I believe August/September?). I have heard that it was the first production steel-top vehicle; just anecdotal information, never anything official. The Ford pickups in '32 and up were steel-tops as well.
-Tim

[31apickup]

The Late 31 pick-up was the first Ford will an all steel roof. Alot of it had to do with the roads and the flexability of the bodies. If you went all steel something would have to give. Cars such as the Model A were originally design to move and twist.

[krswen]

I read somewhere that until the mid-thirties U.S. steel rolling mills could not roll sheet wide enough to span the top. Can't lay my hands on the source now though ....

krswen

[ford1]

a friend of mine is building a 35 fordor chevy master delux, and it has a steel turret top, it fooled me i didnt think the steel tops were offered till 37, i seems nothing is certain

[Rainmaker Ron]

Originally Posted by krswen

I read somewhere that until the mid-thirties U.S. steel rolling mills could not roll sheet wide enough to span the top. Can't lay my hands on the source now though ....

krswen

I am pretty sure you have it right! My company at one time maintained much of the equipment at a rolling mill and I was well acqainted with the engineering staff. The inability to roll wide sheets was the reason related to me at the time.
Rainmaker

[1931 flamingo]

I've also heard the same as post # 18 and #20. FWIW
Paul in CT

[rodnut1]

The body design did not allow for a full metal roof- perimeter skins over a hardwood frame, with the fabric top insert installed last, was definately the easiest method of closing the top. Steel roofs didn't appear until the technology was developed to stamp and assemble the body by welding, instead of using nails..

[Deluxe Delivery]

I too have heard that the technology, or the tools available at the time could not produce the width of the panel necessary to make a roof. Yet the side panel of a 130 B, the Deluxe Delivery was one piece and more than big enough to cover a roof. All posts give insight into this often asked question. ( right after they ask...are those fenders black ?!!!)

[WTSHNN]

I have often doubted the argument that cited limitations of era production methods or the "couldn't produce something that size."









It would appear to me that if they were able to make a side panel large enough for a AA truck, they could make a roof for a coupe, tudor, even a fordor....

-Tim

[mot]

isnt the passenger compartment roof on a town car delivery solid?

[1930artdeco]

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I unsderstand the complexity of the compound curves being a good answer as they have to have one stamping and then fold it to make the sides. I personally think that it was more they were still doing things the 'coach' way. As for not being able to roll steel that wide I disagree for two reasons: WTSHNN's post of AA sides, and the fact that they could roll Aluminum for aircraft and boiler plate for ships and boilers. Just my two cents worth.

Mike

[Deluxe Delivery]

I believe the town car delivery body was aluminum....not that that would make much difference in the size of the molds.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

I think the best explanation is that is the way they did it in those days. There are a lot of guys that use the old saying "this is the way we have always done it" but if you have done it wrong for 40 years it doesn't make it right. Evolution fights Subborness and in this case Evolution won out.

[WTSHNN]

Just to add more to the rumor mill; I remember hearing it had to do with concerns about attracting and then retaining heat inside the vehicle.

-Tim

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by WTSHNN

Just to add more to the rumor mill; I remember hearing it had to do with concerns about attracting and then retaining heat inside the vehicle.

-Tim

Oh, I believe this one.
I mean just look at the detail and engineering Ford put into keeping heat from the muffler and exhaust system out of the passenger compartment.

[woodypecker]

During the time the cars were manufactured it was easier to control body boom noise. A severe boom is when you have one window open in a new car and you get the boom boom sound. the fabric flexes and reduces noise.

[coop39]

i know this is an old thread but i thought id ask the question
i have a 1933 vicky with a full steel top and the bloke i bought it from had a 30 tudor with the same.these were from south america and he said they were factory fitted tops.can anyone clarify this.both cars do look factory because nothing else has been touched on them.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by coop39

i know this is an old thread but i thought id ask the question
i have a 1933 vicky with a full steel top and the bloke i bought it from had a 30 tudor with the same.these were from south america and he said they were factory fitted tops.can anyone clarify this.both cars do look factory because nothing else has been touched on them.

As you have read above it was not factory.

[spdway1]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

Besides the steel stamping issues already noted, it was the standard in the industry for the time period. If you spent 17k on a new Springfield built Rolls Royce you would get the same thing except the roof covering was long grain GENUINE leather.

What is left to the Springfield, MA Rolls Royce factory is about 2 miles from me! The Indian Motorcycle Factory and the Springfield Armory are still standing and well!!! The Basketball Hall of Fame and the Dr. Suess Building are new! And the FIRST Durea was built here too!

[Kevin in NJ]

Something else to consider.

Did you ever think about how Ford spent a lot of time and money to switch over to the slant window all steel bodies for just about 9 months of production?

I believe the major reason was the steel body was much less labor intensive (=cheaper to build). So much so that they thought it worth while to do a major change for a reasonably short period of time. I believe that if they could have eliminated the labor of the wood roof they would have done it. There must have been a manufacturing or a life cycle reason why they never did it.

I will go a step further. The change to the turret top happened after they went to very rounded top. That would be much more structurally rigid and not likely to warp and tear seams like you would expect with a flat roof.

I do not know the reason, but those are my guesses.

[Doug in NJ]

After replacing the wood, fabric, and moldings on my S/W roof, I was amazed how complicated and fiddly the process was. Especially for such a delicate part of the car that might have to be replaced more than once!
I saw a description of the roof of another early 30's car (Oldsmobile?), and I was surprised by how much simpler (and more leak-resistant) it was. The fabric was stretched around an inner wooden frame, sort of like an unfinished artist's canvas, and the assembly was set into the roof opening, and caulking was applied to the joint. It seems like this would be easier to repair, and the fixed wood inside the car body would not get messed up from all those tacks (for both the fabric and the molding) getting repeatedly removed and replaced.

Doug

[Rowdy]

I actually thought it was to keep afew more people employed during the depression than anything else. Ford understood what our modern business men do not, Less Unemployment= More Sales. Rod

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Rowdy

I actually thought it was to keep afew more people employed during the depression than anything else. Ford understood what our modern business men do not, Less Unemployment= More Sales. Rod

Now, that's a slant I'd never thought about, but it makes sense, and could certainly be one of the reasons.

[Rowdy]

Tom, I had heard that one reason for so much wood still in the A bodies was to keep the lumberjacks and wood workers employed in the forests and shops Henrey owned. Ford had already proved in 1926 that he could produce a body with far less wood than what the A's have. Also I find it interesting to note there are far more 28-29 bodies and cars to be found in this area than 30-31's dispite higher production of 30-31 cars overall. This area was hard hit (still not as bad as areas to the South and West of here) by the dustbowl problems and the depression in general. Manufacturing centers like Detroit seemed to recover alittle faster and have a much higher volme of 30-31 body styles in the general area. Interesting this affect can still be observed to this day. Rod