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11-26-2016, 09:53 PM | #1 |
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Fiber Timing Gears
Bought a couple of 44t press-on fiber timing gears on line. Advertised as "Westinghouse NORS" .... BUT arrived with no markings other than one with "HooF". They were not in their original boxes.
Does anyone have experience with unmarked gears? Want to check here before turning them down. Thank you.
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11-27-2016, 01:12 PM | #2 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
I had one of the repro fiber gears fail on my 35 in less than 2k miles. The material was definitely not like an original Ford fiber gear. The teeth all wore to sharp points before 4/5 stripped completely off. The engine shutdown just like turning the ignition switch off. Replaced with an aluminum press on gear about 25k miles ago, and no more problems. NOS fiber or aluminum is all I would consider using on any of my engines.
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11-27-2016, 04:33 PM | #3 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
Hoop.It's hard to install those cam gears with no dot on the gear because you cain't turn the cam. If the valves were out so you can turn the cam it would be easier. I'll tell you how I would do it. Turn the crank so N0 ONE and No. SIX piston is top dead center, NOW install NO.6 valves with no springs, make sure the fuel pump push rod is out, now the cam will turn with your fingers, hold down the 2 valves with your fingers, turn the cam counter clock ways and watch the 2 valves go up and down, (rock the 2 valves so both valves are open just off the seat). Now hold the cam gear up against the cam with one of the cam theeth in the crank gear. Mark that thooth. there is usaually a scribe mark in the center of the cam gear. With the gear pressed on turn the crank back and forth with the no.6 valves rocking and piston top dead. Walt
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11-27-2016, 05:30 PM | #4 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
Walt, My apologies. I wasn't clear.
"No marks" ... I meant no manufacturers name to identify where they came from. They do have index marks. I have Westinghouse gears and they are clearly marked with the name. These do no have any name or part number BUT the seller says they are Westinghouse. Obviously I do not trust them ... however if someone on here knows that Westinghouse also came without identifying labels, ... looks like they are going back. Thanks to you and John for the help.
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11-27-2016, 09:12 PM | #5 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
Hoop, I still have that failed gear. I used it as part of the tooling I made to replace press on timing gears without having to remove the camshaft. So, I can check to see if it has any manufacturers marking later this week.
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12-03-2016, 05:12 PM | #6 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
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12-03-2016, 05:28 PM | #7 | |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
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12-04-2016, 12:58 PM | #8 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
I'm sure there were different types/blends/grades/fillers used by Westinghouse in their Micarta material, but whatever they used to mold this timing gear was a very poor selection. The internal grain structure and filler material looks nothing like what was used on the original fiber timing gears.
During my working career we used a lot of Micarta material for electrical insulatiion of current carrying parts. It worked very well in those applications.
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John "Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 12-04-2016 at 11:55 PM. |
12-04-2016, 11:40 PM | #9 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
Maybe it's a dumb question, but why were timing gears made from a soft material such as fiber or aluminum? Trannys had/have hard metal on hard metal with great force involved. Was it to save the crank gear?
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12-05-2016, 08:35 AM | #10 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
I think it was noise reduction.......Mark
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12-05-2016, 08:22 PM | #11 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
jm did you soak the gear in oil before you put it in.
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12-05-2016, 09:00 PM | #12 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
No, but there was oil feeding into the cam gear area from the pressure release valve in the lifter valley, plus the crankshaft timing gear was riding in oil and feeding oil up to the fiber timing gear.
Was there a Ford Service Specification instucting repairman to soak fiber timing gears in oil prior to installation?
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12-05-2016, 10:06 PM | #13 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
Funny, because I saw, I think in the Frank Oddo book that someone was making square cut timing gears so they would produce the nostalgic 'gear whine'.... I admit I like certain kinds of old vehicle noise but of course the public was sick of noisy and smelly contraptions by the 40's.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
12-16-2016, 08:23 AM | #14 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
As followup information for Hoop, and anyone else who may have an interest, I am posting pictures of the early Ford aluminum timing gears that I have. Hoop was wondering what markings, other than timing marks required for proper alignment, could be found on these gears. I found manufacturers identification markings that were cast in the front surface of ten of the eleven aluminum timing gears that I own.
.Note: manufacturers ID markings can be seen in most of these photos by clicking on each photo, and then opening the picture in a new window, and enlarging the image.
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John "Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 12-17-2016 at 10:07 AM. |
12-16-2016, 10:45 AM | #15 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
John, great work. Terrific reference.
Many thanks.
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12-16-2016, 11:36 AM | #16 | |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
Quote:
Micarta or glass reinforced phenolic plastic is still being used in the aviation industry to a fair degree for protection against abrasion wear in cable type control systems. The little pulley sheaves are micarta and a lot of fairlead blocks where the cabled pass through bulkheads are micarta. You can still purchase the stuff in sheets of different thicknesses and rods where you can cut or machine it in to different shapes. It is also used in some aluminum sandwich composite structural members as a honeycomb core strengthener. Nylon and Delron have replaced it to some extent for abrasion appliactions but not completely. |
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12-16-2016, 05:52 PM | #17 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
I have a Cast Iron Timing Gear which I removed from a V8 engine several decades ago, It would be interesting to know what model engine it is off it could be Canadian there are markings on the gear. I would say it would be noisy.
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12-16-2016, 06:26 PM | #18 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
Those 'Canadians' are frequently noisy
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12-17-2016, 10:54 AM | #19 |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
I have heard about steel/cast iron timing gears used on Ford flathead engines in past posts here. It would be interesting to know what manufacturers markings are actually on this gear, and why they were made of this material. Could they have been produced during the war years when other materials were needed for the war efforts?
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12-17-2016, 04:11 PM | #20 | |
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Re: Fiber Timing Gears
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