downshifting from 3rd to 2nd on the go

[Pete]

After you get down shifting so you can do it without thinking about it, try it by keeping your foot on the brake and working the throttle with your heel.
It's called heel and toeing and it's standard practice in road racing.
When they show rally racing on TV watch the feet when they show them.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

The brakes are easier and cheaper to repair than the transmission and those stops the way you are doing them can get you a big ticket. They're called California stops here in Oregon.

I beg your pardon!!! One of your Oregonians creamed my wife in Bend, by doing just that same thing! Bill W.

[J Franklin]

But was he a native Oregonian?

[TreeTopFlier]

Fred,

I hear you there, there are numberous instances where a milder 3rd to 2nd downshift can be useful to avoid a start from (1st gear) scratch... often avoiding stops under certain circumstances.

Eagle,

What you're saying is to the punch the throttle quickly (and with the correct amount), not to hold the rev longer then a split second... is that correct?

[eagle]

Yes, I find it much easier to pick the right RPMs as they "go by" rather than reving the engine and holding it while you shift. I hear people doing that and its fine, I find it more effective to just hit the throttle a blip, rather than trying to hold them. Its hard to explain. When I was 13 yrs old I owned a 1951 Chev pickup, the synchro was completely shot on it, so it was second nature. I put a lot of miles on it. We also drove the old Dodge grain truck that had no synchro at all. As long as it was for farm use, no one cared how old you were. Us kids weren't allowed to drive on the "main roads" .

[bogdonj]

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Originally Posted by eagle

Yes, I find it much easier to pick the right RPMs as they "go by" rather than reving the engine and holding it while you shift. I hear people doing that and its fine, I find it more effective to just hit the throttle a blip, rather than trying to hold them. Its hard to explain. When I was 13 yrs old I owned a 1951 Chev pickup, the synchro was completely shot on it, so it was second nature. I put a lot of miles on it. We also drove the old Dodge grain truck that had no synchro at all. As long as it was for farm use, no one cared how old you were. Us kids weren't allowed to drive on the "main roads" .

I agree, I find it easier to blip the gas before going in to gear.. Works almost every time. I also do this when coming to a quick stop so the car doesn't stall... that's another story with the zenith carbs.

[theHIGHLANDER]

Eagle's got it right, but you may ask why. Because letting off some throttle unloads the trans a bit. It's also the trick to clutchless shifting. The extreme in clutchless operation can be witnessed in drag bikes at the track. Their air shifters retard the timing a few degrees to unload the drives. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, can work a clutch that fast. Now, if you really want a challenge that will pucker your hiney, try a Duesenburg trans. Knowing the value of that item alone will put you on your game. Clutchless shifting a 6 figure trans? No, but just making all of that mass cooperate is something that has to be mastered. Shifting in general is always best if you begin the whole deal from the 1st thought of shifting. Here's my gig:

1st to 2nd, ease off the throttle and begin moving the shift lever at the same time, then apply clutch pedal pressure. You don't need to go to the floor, you're unloading the drive gears. The clutch becomes a quick in and out action. NEVER jam the shift lever. Like my dear departed Dad taught me, "smooth fluid movements".

2nd to 3rd, same deal but many times there's enough inertia that no clutch is even needed, and I often find the whole deal happening without even being aware. FWIW, I drive many big Packards clutchless, but everything needs to be nice and warm 1st. Do it cold and you'll break shit really fast. That's part of the magic in Model A shifting too, warm and slick. Shift speed is determined by what you "feel" through the lever. You're feeling it, trust me.

Downshifting an A is an art form, like any early non sync trans. It's all about engine speed to driveshaft speed and reducing or removing the load on the gears. The speed at which you push the shift lever too, never force it. You can get good with an A by just doing a quick rev of the engine, clutch out, and catching 2nd as the engine speed is on the way down while clutching in. In most cases, the speed that owners decide to shift on these old cars is too high. We get in habits and have expectations based on our daily drivers. That's hard to shake. Like driving a 60s car and wondering when OD's gonna kick in. It's not...

[mngreen]

Originally Posted by Pete

After you get down shifting so you can do it without thinking about it, try it by keeping your foot on the brake and working the throttle with your heel.
It's called heel and toeing and it's standard practice in road racing.
When they show rally racing on TV watch the feet when they show them.

For the life of me I can't fathom being able to hold the brake with one toe and press the gas button on a stock Model A setup unless the brake pedal went to the floor board when pressed. I think you would have to have a size 16 shoe and a dis-articulated foot! The geometry is just not there.

On a modern car when the pedals are closer and on the relatively same plane, okay...or maybe just blip the throttle on the column!