Replace head studs when adding new Edelbrock heads?

[SoCalCoupe]

I see that Edelbrock and ARP offer head studs 3.15" long and that the stock head studs are 3.09", only 1/16" difference. Any thoughts on whether it's necessary or advisable to change head studs when adding these aftermarket aluminum heads to a stock engine?

[KiWinUS]

It maybe as you for sure need hardened washers with aluminum heads.

[Ken/Alabama]

You ain’t going to like them studs if you ever need to remove the aluminum heads. I prefer bolts when using aluminum heads.

[Bored&Stroked]

The issue of removing aluminum heads with studs - depends on the setup. Today, all I use are ARP studs (which have an allen key receiver in the ends).

This allows me to remove the studs with the heads on - so that solves the issue of having studs that cause the aluminum heads to 'bind' and then become a bitch to get off. I've used ARP studs for years - is the way to go if you can afford to pay a bit extra and want studs instead of bolts. Also, they don't stretch like most of the re-pop studs do - so they hold torque a LOT better than most of the 'stock style' hardware that is available.

[Tim Ayers]

There is a website called Allen’s Fasteners that gives a discount on ARP studs once you purchase a certain amount. I forgot off hand l what that number is, but getting 48 or more gets you there. Puts the price at almost the same as other products.

[47topless]

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Have you tried to remove your original studs yet? I wish you luck.
Phil

[Ol' Ron]

I prefer bolts, torqued to 45/50lbs though three heat cycles. And you don;t need some fancy bolts for this
Gramps
Note: Use harden washers on alum heads.

[tubman]

I also like bolts over studs because of removal issues. There is however, another problem. Lately, the head manufacturers have been making heads with oversized holes, just because of this problem. This allows the heads to move around on the block a bit. This troubled me a few builds back, so I decided to do something about it. I use two pieces of aluminum tubing in a couple of holes to positively locate the the head.

See this thread : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...be#post1535025.

It's probably not absolutely necessary, but I've always been a "belt and suspenders" type of guy.

I prefer to use original Ford head bolts, because they have the proper sized (11/16") head (hardware store bolts are usually 5/8"), there are lots of them around so you can pick and choose the best ones, and they have the right thread type.

[SoCalCoupe]

Lots of good information here and in the links. Sounds like there's a significant possibility of breaking off a head stud if I try to remove them and it also sounds like a sub-optimal plan to get into that while the engine is in the car.


In other words, with the engine in the car, don't plan on replacing the head studs. That said, can I use the existing studs to mount new Edelbrock aluminum heads? Several of the studs on the existing stock heads have no more than half a thread showing above the top of the nut. If I add a hardened washer under the nut, I'd probably have some nuts with threads not engaged on the studs IF the aluminum head height at the stud is identical or higher than stock heads.


In other words, if I don't want to get into the possibility of having to replace head studs, involuntarily, then don't try to put on aluminum heads, because you REALLY don't want to get into broken head studs with the engine in the car? Even out of the car, you're running a non-zero risk of block damage?


Don't know if this is faulty thinking or not.

[tubman]

I think there may be another brand of heads that will work with stock length studs.

[highbeams]

I open the hood; check the oil. That's all we did on the farm. Might result in low oil pressure, but low blood pressure as well.

[deuce lover]

Originally Posted by tubman

I think there may be another brand of heads that will work with stock length studs.

Vintage Weiands,Offenhauser's or Navarro's and maybe Edmunds

[Bored&Stroked]

Deuce Lover is correct (as usual ) - there are certain brands and models of heads that were specifically designed to use the stock-length studs. That would be the route I'd take as there is no reliable way to remove the old studs with the engine in the car - usually it takes a complete tear-down, some praying to higher powers, a bit of torch/tig work and other such fun. So don't attempt that!

If you do the aluminum head route, make sure you put a good dose on anti-seize on the sides of the studs - helps prevent corrosion and also might help you get the heads off at a later date.

Here is a pic of a set of Navarro heads. Barney wanted to make sure folks could bolt these onto an engine and not have to replace the stock studs - as did Edmunds, certain Offenhauser models, etc..

2022-09-04_9-45-02.jpg

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Vintage Weiands,Offenhauser's or Navarro's and maybe Edmunds

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Deuce Lover is correct (as usual ) - there are certain brands and models of heads that were specifically designed to use the stock-length studs. That would be the route I'd take as there is no reliable way to remove the old studs with the engine in the car - usually it takes a complete tear-down, some praying to higher powers, a bit of torch/tig work and other such fun. So don't attempt that!

If you do the aluminum head route, make sure you put a good dose on anti-seize on the sides of the studs - helps prevent corrosion and also might help you get the heads off at a later date.

Here is a pic of a set of Navarro heads. Barney wanted to make sure folks could bolt these onto an engine and not have to replace the stock studs - as did Edmunds, certain Offenhauser models, etc..

Attachment 498324

Great information! None of that is really obvious to someone just starting out with flatheads. That's just the kind of 'inside flatheads' information I really needed to stay out of trouble. Same as every other hot rod though: it's harder than it looks, takes 3 times as long and because you modified X, you're also going to have to modify Y.

[Bored&Stroked]

In addition to 3 times as long . . . always 3 times as much money! LOL

[SoCalCoupe]

In spite of all the great info here, I bought a pair of original (I was told, but it doesn't matter) Eddie Meyer heads this week. They will require new head studs. Long story short, picked them up at a shop that built an AMBR contender. Seemed like really great people at the shop. Told the owner my engine had been rebuilt (supposedly) a decade ago. He agreed that removing head studs was problematic but pointed out that if my engine actually had been rebuilt, the head studs would have had to be removed to deck the block and bore the cylinders. Implied that removing them now wouldn't be like removing studs from an 80 year old survivor. So, I took a chance and will try to remove and replace my head studs to install these cool heads.



Also, on another forum. saw a 'trick' that running the car up to temperature then immediately draining the block and removing the head studs is a little easier because of the thermal expansion of the block.

[Tim Ayers]

If you don't have one, try to borrow an oxygen-acetylne torch set with a heating tip. (not the cutting tip)

Use it to get the studs cherry red working with the tip horizontally as to direct the heat to the stud and not the block deck.

Let it cool until the next day.

I've had good luck with this method. Sometimes, for the stubborn ones, turning the stud as to tightened just slightly before turning it back to loosen helps as well. It is a game of feel and sound and do not force it if doesn't want to go. Good luck,

[Ol' Ron]

the problem here is "aesthetics ". Angle milled stock heads will give you almost the same CR. Alittle brass added, alittle more Cr and a better chamber. The aftermarket heads lower the transfer area, which limits flow. Unfortunately, very few people are alive that can do this kind of work, and you need a decent wood stove as well.
Gramps

[SoCalCoupe]

What is the correct length for head bolts to use on a '41 flathead? Dennis carpenter has long 2.62" bolts sold individually for '49 - '53 cars. I'm assuming earlier cars are the same but used studs instead of bolts. Couldn't find another seller that sold them individually, only in sets with multiple lengths. Because of the heads, mine all have to be the same length. Do the bolts/studs go into the water jacket? Do you need to use sealant on the end go the bolts/studs when installing them?



Finally decided this really isn't all that hard. If any of the existing studs are reluctant, I'll just go get one of those induction heaters.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Vintage Weiands,Offenhauser's or Navarro's and maybe Edmunds

Add VINTAGE Edelbrock to that also. They called their ones for stock studs "S" model and the ones that required all long studs "R" model.
The "R"model held more water beside being available in higher compression.