Using too much radiator water

[sjessen]

My '30 coupe has a good radiator and pump but every time I drive the car for thirty minutes or so, the radiator water drops about a half a gallon. What's happening? The overflow pipe is just below the cap where it should be. Could this be a matter of a leaking head gasket? How about re-torquing the head bolts?

[tbirdtbird]

You answered your own question.
" Could this be a matter of a leaking head gasket? How about re-torquing the head bolts?"

try a re-torque first. Check oil. If milky, water is getting into crankcase. Possible bearing damage, but drain and refill as first step. If not milky, pull oil plug for a moment and see if water comes out first (oil floats on water)

There is a recent thread about re-torquing. Several members went out and retorqued and were surprised that many nuts were only 40-45 #. Use the search function.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

if you're filling the water above the baffle, you are overfilling the radiator. The car will just puke out the excess through the overflow tube. If you're filling it to the baffle and it drops substantially, then you might have a problem. The water pump often over pumps. If there is no baffle ( from a neglectful radiator shop) the pump will pump too much water out the overflow. If there is a baffle and its still over pumping, a thermostat in the hose will act as a restriction, slowing down the flow. Odds are you are just filling it too high. Search the archived posts for this subject and you will find lots of discussion on it.

[Benson]

This will help if it is the same overflow tube problem that you have:

My experience is that in most cases the position of the overflow pipe is more important than the baffles.

Click on this link to see Service Bulletin page 450:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showpo...10&postcount=7

Many rebuilt and even SOME new radiators still have this problem.

[tbirdtbird]

what happens once the amount of water between the cap and baffle has been pumped out?

Theoretically his radiator could be clogged, too

Also, is this a new problem?

Good link, Benson....

[sjessen]

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it just seems to keep getting lower and lower...

The pouints from all of the above are giving me some things to check out.

Thanks

[sjessen]

1) I'll re-tourque the head.

2) This is a new problem after a new radiator install.

3) The overflow tube is at the front of the opening not the rear...

Thanks All

[heneste]

You can also check your lower hose clamps to make sure they haven't loosened enough to allow some leaking from the system.

[Willie Krash]

I went over to the barn in freezing weather and increased the anti-freeze. I filled that puppy up. Gawd it was cold. Started her up and after a minute water was pouring out the radiator, like a garden hose. Grabbed the bucket. It settled down and found its level.
Now I'm a devout coward and don't go looking for trouble. My luck is I'd re-torque the head and break a stud. It would be my last option.

Now I'm new to Model A's but have been in the auto business for over 40 years and re-torquing a head is not something I have ever seen people have to do in less a clear reason presents itself. all imho

[DougVieyra]

Being a detective can be FUN ! But for most of us, it is a pain in the ass.

To add yet another variable to the hunt for a solution to losing water from the radiator, is the occasional problem of an overly aggressive water pump; that is to say, the impellers are a schoch too large and push water through faster than can be digested by the normal return flow. This was a common issue for many of us in the '50's and '60's.

One solution I used on my '34 'C' engine was to install a 'Coolant Recovery System'. This was only needed when my car was driving at sustained high speeds for a long period of time. The water would be thrown out the over-flow tube and exit out to the engine pan. So I installed a one gallon plastic jug to rest in the engine pan and connected it to a heat resistant rubber hose which went to the bottom of the radiator's over-flow tube. Every 100 or so miles, I stopped to empty the jug (which now had about a gallon of water) back into the radiator. This 'Band-aid' approach works well, but is a bit of a bother and does smack of 'hookie'. But it did solve my problem.

The other thing that was done - a bit more 'proper' was to reduce the aggressiveness of the impellers. This can be done by reducing the amount of 'grab' of the impellers, by filling them down a bit, or drilling holes in them to reduce the 'grab'. The shaft/impeller unit will then have to be re-balanced, to avoid excessive wear on the pump.

Yet another solution was to replace the impeller with a smaller unit. The 'B' / 'C' pump impellers were quite a bit larger than an 'A', so a small impeller set could also be used to reduce the over-efficiency of the pump.

Also, as has been previously mentioned. the installation of a thermostat also help slow down the movement of the water flow, thereby reducing the loss to the over-flow tube.

[1931 flamingo]

First off the o/flow tube is in the wrong location. There's a service bulletin on how to modify it. Is there a baffle installed?? Who made the radiator and/or where did you get it???

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Try this: Drop a loose fitting nail, with a large head, in the top of the overflow tube, to prevent "splash-over" (It WON'T pressurize the system) If you want to get "FANCY", use a stainless or a brass nail, so's it won't RUST!!
At higher RPM's, the water REALLY CHURNS in the upper tank!! Just look in & REV it up, you'll be SURPRISED!!!
This is a common OLD TIME "FIX"! (Chief & Claude sed SO, & tole me to tole you!) Bill W.
(There was an OOOLD poem about a war that was lost because of the lack of a HORSE SHOE NAIL, I don't know if that applies here or not?????)

[whirnot]

When it is running and you look at the water level in the radiator are there bubbles? If so, that indicates a leak from the combustion chamber into the water jacket. That would be an indication that you either have a blown head gasket or the head needs re touqueing. If there are no bubbles then there is no reason to think that is the issue, and I would agree with Wille Krash I would not retorque without a reason.

[tbirdtbird]

Lisle Tools makes a combustion gas leak detector for cooling systems to check for blown head gasket. The rubber cone on the device would need to be adapted to the A rad. neck. You would want to temporarily plug the outside end of the overflow tube. Once inserted into the rad. neck, and the special test fluid added, you apply a vacuum for two minutes. Then check for a color change from Blue to yellow= blown gasket. Test over.
It is very hard to see bubbles in an A rad. with the baffle in the way unless the leak is huge.

http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/p...n=1&category=8
I diagnosed 6 blown head gaskets this summer: 2 on As and 4 on modern cars

[30 A Ripper]

I think you just solved one of my problems. Namely a loose fitting cap & the overflow tube pointing into the water surge inside the radiator. I will order a replacement cap and route a rubber hose inside the radiator neck towards the rear. Thanks

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

DON'T FERGIT THE DANGED NAIL!!! Why do folks fight against a simple, foolproof, proven trick?? Maybe it SEEMS too SIMPLE?? It keeps the danged water IN the radumator, these cars AIN'T AIR COOLED!! Trust me!---------Bill W.

[sjessen]

Sorry for not reporting back sooner - don't always get to work on the A. Each of you has given me something to check out. I did move the overflow tube to up under the rear lip - didn't seem to help. Don't see bubbles. I am going to disconnect the hoses to see if the radiator empties as it should. More to follow and thanks for all the help.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by sjessen

Sorry for not reporting back sooner - don't always get to work on the A. Each of you has given me something to check out. I did move the overflow tube to up under the rear lip - didn't seem to help. Don't see bubbles. I am going to disconnect the hoses to see if the radiator empties as it should. More to follow and thanks for all the help.

Dog here, Ol' Bill jist tole me to tole you, "JIST DROP A NAIL IN IT!!!!! AND, he sed a good backflush "might" hep! Them rusty flakes stuck in the top uf the radumator tubes is common & a good backflush every 6 months is good! Buster T.

[ford3]

no need to buy a radiator ehaust gas checker, most radiator shops will check for that for free, or use a thermostat to slow the water returning to the rad

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by sjessen

1) I'll re-tourque the head.

2) This is a new problem after a new radiator install.

3) The overflow tube is at the front of the opening not the rear...

Thanks All

I find it hard to believe that right after the radiator was replaced your head gasket goes.

I would remove the cap and run the engine parked to see what is going on. Did you replace the water pump as well?

Two things come to mind, defective/leaking radiator from the top tank or where the overflow tube leaves the tank, or the overflow tube is too short. To fix the overflow tube problem take a piece of tubing and place it over the tube and cut it at a 45 degree angle just before it hits the top of the cap.