Hoarding junk parts.

[cas3]

I'd like to blame it on my mother, no common sense taught, but really, she was a good woman and apparently I didnt listen. Lots, and lots of parts here I have drug home for the last 50 years from every imaginable source, Yup...its old...bring it home. But...then when I want to actually use anything, its the worn out bent up junk every one else left behind.

The project is, I have a hankerin to put 35 brakes on the front of my model A. I have all the parts, so why not? Been driving the car for years with pretty much no brakes.
First, I bring in a nice set of drums and backing plates with new shoes given to me by a friend who was going to hydraulics. Such a deal ! Well, the drums are 140 over size. everything all painted, new shoes, freshly turned...but 140 over.

Well, thats not a problem, I'm a cool guy with lots of parts, so pick out some better ones.
1st, plow a path thru the snow to get at two 35 axles that had been on home made trailers, now frozen in the dirt. Usually, in my experience trailer axles have the brake shoes removed, but not so lucky here.
They were backed off, but still years of the swamp swelled up the linings to be stuck. Major battle for a day ana half with all the most violent tools, air chisel, big hammers etc, finally took the anchor bolt out to get some clearance, but still a fight.

End result, all are gross looking, two are at about .040, but I doubt they will clean up in spec. More searching in the buildings resulted in 3 more worn out drums. Those keeping track, I now have 9 drums on the floor leaking old liquid grease, about 3 days in, and probably have achieved nothing.

For the 35 guys, Brian? JM ? Whats up with the painted backing plate that has the anchor bolt welded in place, unlike all the rest I have where the bolt has a nut on the outside. Note the yellow paint underline.

Also of interest, I have always thought all mechanical brakes get woven shoes. The drawings in my orange 37 chassis book clearly look like woven shoes to 37 anyway, and yet all the drums I pulled here have had molded shoes. bad pics here, maybe Pete can help. Nice lookin shoes in the vise, huh?

[neilp]

Please tell me about the tool in Pic2. Oh, and I am sorry for your troubles.................

PML

[CA Victoria]

Oversized woven lining is available for drums to about .090. Not enough pressure for harder lining material to work as well. Modern woven lining material uses Kevlar which is said to be better than the original type commonly used.
Removable lower studs were used in 1935, 36 were not. I ordered NOS studs & parts to rebuild mine from Southside Obsolete. He may have shoes too.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by neilp

Please tell me about the tool in Pic2. Oh, and I am sorry for your troubles.................

PML

[cas3]

That tool is a drum measuring devise that came with an FMC drum and disc lathe I got for free because its broken. (I'm such a cheap ass!). It turns, but the feed is broke. Even has a shoe archer, which does work. Been on my winter project list to fix for several years now, but will probably go cheap after my funeral, unless I send it over the pond for Mart to tinker with.

[cas3]

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Hey Pete, blow up that pic of the rotten shoes in the vise for entertainment for all to see what the swamp does to old parts. Thanks for your efforts, always like the big pics.

[Randy in ca]

-

[Brian]

CA Victoria gave you the correct answer about those bottom studs ; 36 are non removeable. Cas, if you strike out finding decent drums, I could send you some from down under, but freight would be a bit! [they're heavy and bulky]. Good luck, let me know if you need some of mine.

[cas3]

Thanks guys for the info. Brian, thanks for the kind offer, but yes freight would be a killer.
there was talk awhile back about a company that relines the drums, not cheap I would guess, but 35's are a rare thing to find. This car, A model A is my bad weather car. It has heat and an electric w/s wiper, and I drive it all winter to get my fix. I've had it 14 years and done 35k miles with bad brakes because it has hard linings from the "restoration" done in the 70's. This time I thought I would make some improvements. Interestingly, when I took the first drum off the A it seems that much of the problem is the operator (we won't mention any names here ) could have done some more brake adjustments as the activator end is worn out, and the adjustment side looks new. But...35 brakes would sure be a step up

[JM 35 Sedan]

cas3, I got here a bit late to answer this question....

For the 35 guys, Brian? JM ? Whats up with the painted backing plate that has the anchor bolt welded in place, unlike all the rest I have where the bolt has a nut on the outside. Note the yellow paint underline.

....but CA Victoria and Brian have already answered your question, however, I do believe those studs/anchor bolts on a 36 backing plate could be replaced if necessary by grinding that peened or riveted end off, and replacing those with 35 parts.

Also, like you, I've been rescuing (aka hoarding ) early Ford parts for more years than I can remember, and I may have some extra parts that you need. You could pm me on this if you would like to discuss in more detail.

[T Scott]

J&G Brake Drum Relining in McHenry, Ill are the go to guys for saving your oversize drums. They can also reline your shoes with semi metalic composite for more aggressive friction. I have used them in the past and can highly recommend them.

[ronn]

great thread to read cas, I appreciate your thorough honesty!

you really should write a book. refreshing.......

[cas3]

Any idea of the cost Mr. Scott ?

[cas3]

Ronn...I'm blushing, most folks would think I "talk" too much in these posts ! Glad you got a smile ! Happy motoring

[cars2cool]

How is that hoarding working out for you? My so called friends and a few select family members tell me I'm hoarding parts I'll never use. My question is how do they know? But seriously now, cutting corners and driving for 14 years without brakes just does not make any sense at all. Pry open the vault and visit the obsolete Ford vendors web sites and purchase the parts you need to fix it the correct way. In the long run you will be done quicker and money ahead. As I have been where your at right now and tried the exact same foolishness.

[Newc]

Jack Benny had a money vault, it took lots of radio time {Noises]o get to it. Newc

[cas3]

Well, sorry if my driving habits have made anyone irritable, I better not tell the story of driving a 1946 White semi tractor home from mankato (30 miles) with no brakes at all ! The cows were all on the right side of the fence that day, so no injury's

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by cas3

Any idea of the cost Mr. Scott ?

Inquiries a while back seemed to be about $300/drum, but the end product is a piece of art. Ckick on the link to their website BELOW!

Coop


https://www.jgrelining.com/photos


.

[cas3]

Thanks Coop

[GB SISSON]

Just wondering if the time tested switch to hydraulic brakes on the early V8 cars is different for the modelA? Seems the right backing plates, shoes, drums should be fairly plentiful. You have far more experience in what is practical on this matter but Im learning here and my cut down AA doodlebug really needs help in the brake dept with this hillside location.

[T Scott]

Seems to me I paid somewhere around $1200 to get four LaSalle drums relined and four sets of semi metalic brake linings. The shoes were arched and matched to respective drums. This was four years ago so I'm sure things have changed.
Incidentally, if you completely rebuild your Model A brakes and change at least the front drums to cast iron you will have a satisfactory working system. I have been driving my Model A for twenty-two years with mechanical brakes and I am still amazed at how well they work. But again, absolutely no worn parts and everything properly adjusted.

[T Scott]

Seems to me I paid somewhere around $1200 to get four LaSalle drums relined and four sets of semi metalic brake linings. The shoes were arched and matched to respective drums. This was four years ago so I'm sure things have changed.
Incidentally, if you completely rebuild your Model A brakes and change at least the front drums to cast iron you will have a satisfactory working system. I have been driving my Model A for twenty-two years with mechanical brakes and I am still amazed at how well they work. But again, absolutely no worn parts and everything properly adjusted.

[cas3]

Yes, I too have always felt that Model A brakes were adequate when all up to snuff. When I bought this car I did king pins and all the brake bushings and rollers, but it had new hard lining shoes in it already and I left them there being cheap. They never have been as good as my other A with correct woven lining. I thought since I have all the 35 parts I would do the upgrade. We'll see after tomorrow when I take my 2 questionable drums to town and have them turned, and see whats left of them !

[T Scott]

Seems to me I paid somewhere around $1200 to get four LaSalle drums relined and four sets of semi metalic brake linings. The shoes were arched and matched to respective drums. This was four years ago so I'm sure things have changed.
Incidentally, if you completely rebuild your Model A brakes and change at least the front drums to cast iron you will have a satisfactory working system. I have been driving my Model A for twenty-two years with mechanical brakes and I am still amazed at how well they work. But again, absolutely no worn parts and everything properly adjusted.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by cas3

Well, sorry if my driving habits have made anyone irritable, I better not tell the story of driving a 1946 White semi tractor home from mankato (30 miles) with no brakes at all ! The cows were all on the right side of the fence that day, so no injury's

I bet I could match that story with mine about navigating the Oakland hills (Skyline Blvd) in my ‘39 with parking brakes only. I never did it again, as that same night, I lost a couple of friends over a cliff.
On your thoughts about woven shoes for all mechanicals, the cable brakes of 1937 proved to be superior, so Old Henry upgraded to molded shoes in mid ‘37.

[rich b]

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Be sure to tell the guy cutting your drums that you do not need every last groove or pit turned out of the drum. May make the difference in the drum being saved.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by cars2cool

How is that hoarding working out for you? My so called friends and a few select family members tell me I'm hoarding parts I'll never use. My question is how do they know? But seriously now, cutting corners and driving for 14 years without brakes just does not make any sense at all. Pry open the vault and visit the obsolete Ford vendors web sites and purchase the parts you need to fix it the correct way. In the long run you will be done quicker and money ahead. As I have been where your at right now and tried the exact same foolishness.

My wife claims I'm a hoarder, so I looked it up. What it said was, no matter how much stuff you have its not hoarding if it's neatly organized. Based on that I am currently classified as a "hoarder" but I'm working on getting it organized. I have a 10' wide by 70' long section in the garage with parts on pallet racks. There are parts laying all over the floor back there that I have to step over. I had to go down to the other end and my four-year-old grandson looked up, and then he said, "papa, how long will it take us to get there". That's when I knew I was definitely a hoarder.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by rich b

Be sure to tell the guy cutting your drums that you do not need every last groove or pit turned out of the drum. May make the difference in the drum being saved.

I’m in the same camp…. Just more braking surface. A guy could get the braking power of a 2 1/2” drum in a 2” drum. In 50 years of doing my own brakes i have never had a drum or rotor turned. I have bought new ones when it seemed necessary.

[Flathead]

Yeah we're all hoarders until somebody needs a part then suddenly you have a new best friend.

[cars2cool]

Originally Posted by cas3

Well, sorry if my driving habits have made anyone irritable, I better not tell the story of driving a 1946 White semi tractor home from mankato (30 miles) with no brakes at all ! The cows were all on the right side of the fence that day, so no injury's

Yup I do get irritable when people take unnecessary risks with my life or other peoples lives. All for what...money!

[T Scott]

Sorry about my triple post. I have no idea how I did that!

[sugarmaker]

cas,
OK Mankato just takes me right to Little House on the prarie show!
Anyway, yea your a horder like the rest of us. I feel bad some of my good used parts are setting out in the vast warehouse and may not be that good when I do need them!
Your project looks a lot like my things too. Maybe why you follow along with my stuff? Good to see your work and progress on your Model A brake project. After some time with this 32 truck I can appreciate the Model A machines much more.
I will try to pay better attenion to your thread.
Yes you could probably spend lots of money to buy all the correct stuff. But what fun would that be?
Regards,
Chris

[A bones]

I share the same instincts. However three wives, plus the devastation of divorce, has limited my wealth of resources. I wish that I still had some of the materials ( treasures ) that I had harbored in in the past.
It must be said though do not play around with drums that have been over-cut.
The message of too much cutting comes with a loss of control. The car will veer off path while trying to control speed. Expensive error.

Speaking of: How many Virginians does it take to change a light bulb?
Three, one to the swap the bulbs, and two to reminisce about how nice the old bulb was.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by A bones

I share the same instincts. However three wives, plus the devastation of divorce, has limited my wealth of resources. I wish that I still had some of the materials ( treasures ) that I had harbored in in the past.
It must be said though do not play around with drums that have been over-cut.
The message of too much cutting comes with a loss of control. The car will veer off path while trying to control speed. Expensive error.

Speaking of: How many Virginians does it take to change a light bulb?
Three, one to the swap the bulbs, and two to reminisce about how nice the old bulb was.

Tom, I just gotta say that it's just me and the dog sitting here and I truly Laughed Out Loud. And not about the drums. Those Virginians would be right at home here on the Ragged 'Ol Backside of Orcas Island. "Remember back before the......."

[terry]

Doesn't one of our members have a motto that says "don't never get rid a Nuthin"? I'd sure like to hear him pipe in right now. terry

[cas3]

Time for an update. Not the grand finally, but an update.
My 2 "good " drums were turned at my parts store. Yeah, they have some dumb kids, but the main old guy who does the machine work is pretty good. They (he) does drums and disks, surface flywheels, and make hydraulic hoses. Lucky to still have a real parts store.

One drum I measured at .040, was so out of round he said he had to make about 20 cuts, I sez, yeah but the first 19 were free , right ? He gives me that tilted head, puppy dog look. ...So, that drum went to 100, and still had some pitting, he knew to not cut it to death and quit once it made a full cut from being so out of round. That drum had shoes stuck in there for decades of the swamp humidity here, we guess that the shoes and rust expanded and pushed the drum out of round over time. Other theory's welcome !

Drum 2 turned OK at only .060, so goody goody, BUT! the outer race can be pushed in by hand. It does not look like it has spun in the bore, but not as snug as it should be.
Not happy, but I opted to use red locktite and call er good. Now, 24 hours later, the excess locktite I wiped off with a paper towel is still wet. No "dry time" at the company website, thinking now I should have used JB weld.

I have one more 35 axle to check for drums, but its down in my junk yard 1/4 mile away and snow up to your knees. Next spring maybe ?

So, lets put one side together while waiting for the locktite.

The main reason I got started on this project was I was given all the brakes off a "restored" chassis. I was tickled when I got it, throw it in the barn for later. Now, I want to use it, everything is all painted, new shoes, new cotter pins on the rollers, all clean, restored right?
1st shoe I look at has a big flat spot on a roller, and it wont turn. When I take it apart I see it wont turn because the shoe has been crimped too tight, like squeezed in a vise.
Dont want to wait for parts, go out to the barn and get the rear brakes from that chassis, and yeah, good rollers. Badly worn out pins too. For some reason, the parts on the rear brakes were very good. 3 out of 4 rollers were swapped out with the rears.
Keep in mind, these parts had been disassembled, relined, and all clean with new cotter pins, yet it would not have worked as designed.

Sadly, I know the man that did the work. He is an engineer by trade. I aint no durn injuneer, but I dont install bad parts on a frame up resto!

So, now one side ready to assemble, and something doesn't seem right. I thought this was a bolt on deal. It would have been if I used 32-34 stuff. But 35, with the bigger shoes also is the first year of a real seal instead of the tin dust cap used 28 to 34, so to make room for the seal, the spindle pushes the bearing out further. I should have remembered this as I have put later hydraulic Ford stuff on early fords, and there is a spacer required to put the inner bearing in location. Silly me. Most folks use a specific size valve seat for the spacer, as I did in the past, but this time I made one on the lathe.
Not hard like a valve seat, but the spindle is not hard either. Should be fine.

once I get side 2 together the next thing is of coarse the test drive. I stay out of the salt in winter, so stomping on the brakes on snow packed, really now Ice as we have had some rain mixed in, will not tell us much. More news after that. Wake up, I'm done rambling now !

[cas3]

Took the test drive but road conditions are bad here now. My gravel road was snow packed, then got rained on, now like a skating rink. The county came around and sprinkled chips on it, so drivable. Seems to have good brakes, but I could only test lock em up when crossing a paved road. Any way, got brakes, now to rebuild the A rear brakes next.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by T Scott

Sorry about my triple post. I have no idea how I did that!

I think that what happened was that your original post wound up going on the next page and you expected it to show at the bottom of the page you were on when you posted it. You didn't see it where you expected it to be so you typed it up again. Still didn't see it. Etc, etc, etc. I've had that happen to me.

[sidevalve8ba]

Speaking of: How many Virginians does it take to change a light bulb?
Three, one to the swap the bulbs, and two to reminisce about how nice the old bulb was.
__________________
Heeey! I resemble that remark!

[A bones]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

I think that what happened was that your original post wound up going on the next page and you expected it to show at the bottom of the page you were on when you posted it.
You didn't see it where you expected it to be so you typed it up again.
Still didn't see it. Etc, etc, etc. I've had that happen to me.

Yeah I sent I sent him a PM but we can all try this.
Just exit the forum, then click on Early V8 and you will see the thread at the top of the page, with your name shown at the top right of the thread listings.

[B-O-B]

cas
I can relate to your story about getting restored parts only to find out they are junk. The 34 roadster I purchased from a liar out of Iowa had plenty of that stuff. You can look a car over but unless you take it apart you have to believe the guy. He told me that he had restored the chassis but all he did was paint over everything. Nope didn't even remove any of the Iowa dirt or grease. The brake lining was falling off there was nothing left of the shackles. Brake clevis holes were egg shaped. etc etc etc
Goodnight I, getting myself all riled up again.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by B-O-B

cas
I can relate to your story about getting restored parts only to find out they are junk. The 34 roadster I purchased from a liar out of Iowa had plenty of that stuff. You can look a car over but unless you take it apart you have to believe the guy. He told me that he had restored the chassis but all he did was paint over everything. Nope didn't even remove any of the Iowa dirt or grease. The brake lining was falling off there was nothing left of the shackles. Brake clevis holes were egg shaped. etc etc etc
Goodnight I, getting myself all riled up again.

Don'tcha just hate when that happens? Some incident from years ago that went badly can mess with your head all over again. Wake up in the middle of the night with your heart pounding, thinking about what you should have done or how you should have gotten some justice.

[cmbrucew]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Don'tcha just hate when that happens? Some incident from years ago that went badly can mess with your head all over again. Wake up in the middle of the night with your heart pounding, thinking about what you should have done or how you should have gotten some justice.

Alan
You should learn to forgive, not for him, but for yourself and the pain it causes you.


Bruce

[David J]

Clayton, I have 35 drums and no need for them. Send mew am email or call. Cannot find yours

[cas3]

Excellent David ! I've not been up to see the Phaeton yet either. Will call