The Ford Barn

Doot · 06-14-2013, 02:09 AM

I did it exactly the way the book says.... 3 times!
I used the little pin in front on main crank.
Lined it up
Turned rotor cam to line up on no.1 in distributer.
Turned it 180 degrees opposite like it says...
Set the points and rotor cam to the exact specs from the book...

Put it all back together...

Cranked her over.... Spit ... Sputter... No fire!
A couple of exhaust fume smoke... That's it!
What the f*ck is my solution?
Thank you to all involved!

christian · 06-14-2013, 02:32 AM

Once you are in TDC, loosen the rotor cam locking screw, rotate it a few times clockwise to remove backlash, then stop it just as the points close with the rotor pointing to the #1 distributor contact. If you did it correctly, the slightest movement counter clockwise should open the points.

Not really sure what you mean about rotating 180 degrees..........

christian · 06-14-2013, 02:33 AM

Also, make us you set the points gap before you do the timing. As changing the points gap will effect your timing after the fact.

Mike V. Florida · 06-14-2013, 02:39 AM

There are a bunch of ways to to this.

This method http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm not only explains the method but also the reason for the steps.

Questions, was that coil you spoke about earlier; new or used, 12 volt or 6 volt? An incorrect or weak coil can also give those symptons.

James Rogers · 06-14-2013, 04:13 AM

The easiest way is to:

1 Line up the cam timing gear with the pin by rotating the engine till the pin drops into the dimple.

2 Loosen the screw in the distributor cam and rotate the cam Counter-clockwise till the notch is in the general direction of the right headlight and the cam just touches the bumper on the points. Lock the cam with the screw.

3 Assemble the distributor and start the engine.

Make sure you set the points and have the lever in the full retard position before beginning this sequence.

I don't understand where you need to rotate the cam 180 degrees after locating #1. This would time the engine 180 degrees out of time and is most likely your problem.

Tom Wesenberg · 06-14-2013, 04:49 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Poor choice of words in the manual, but OPPOSITE means NEXT TO, so you did good right up to the point where you moved it 180*

Wick · 06-14-2013, 05:26 AM

If it spits,then just turn the rotor (pointed at #1) counterclock wise a 1/8" at a time untill she starts. After it starts,if you pull the spark lever all the way down and drive it....try and wind out second gear,it it doeset pull hard and it spits a little and seems to run hot,Then turn the rotor counterclock wise again. Do this untill she acts right. I know this is not the proper way to set the timing,but if your old school and did v-8s this way (I Did not own a timming light) it might make scense. This works great on VW-Bugs!

Patrick L. · 06-14-2013, 05:32 AM

I'm wondering if you are using a Model B timing cover, they are about 19º different.

Banky · 06-14-2013, 07:34 AM

LISTEN TO TOM! I did the same exact thing.

John LaVoy · 06-14-2013, 08:59 AM

I was thinking Model B also.

zzlegend · 06-14-2013, 10:49 AM

Tom has it right. That can be mis leading when it states, point the rotor opposite of number one.

1931 flamingo · 06-14-2013, 10:59 AM

When you replaced the timing gear did you get the dots lined up correctly?? When setting the timing and then when you're trying to start it do you have the spark advance lever in the UP position??
Paul in CT

Purdy Swoft · 06-14-2013, 11:32 AM

Most of the timing instructions that I've seen in the how to books can be confusing to the newby model A owner. Some are confusing by a poor choice of words, others by adding tests that only add more confusion. A lot of problems are caused by the backlash in the distributor shaft (free movement in the dist. shaft).. Here is how I set mine. I first remove all of the spark plugs. There is NO need in fighting compression when tring to set the points or finding the dimple in the timing gear with the timing pin. I then set the points at .022 .. When the timing dimple is found with the timing pin, I loosen the points cam screw and set the rotor so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip is pointing at the number one contact in the distributor cap body. The distributor turns counter clockwise when the engine is running and the trailing edge of the rotor tip will be the rear edge when the rotor is turning counter clockwise, as when it is running. The number one contact in the cap body is the right front when standing on the passenger side. There will sometimes be 1/2 inch or more free movement or backlash in the distributor shaft. Counter clockwise backlash doesn't effect the timing. With The timing pin in the dimple of the cam gear, tighten the points cam so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip is pointing at the number one contact in the distributor cap with no clockwise backlash. In other words let the backlash ALL be in the counter clockwise direction when the points cam screw is tightened. It may take several tries because the points cam will try to turn as you tighten the screw. If clockwise rotation or backlash remains, the timing will be retarded the amount of the clock wise backlash that remains when the cam screw is tightened . To test, retard the spark lever, the points should be just about to open. With a screw driver that just fits the cam screw , back the screw up to the end of the clockwise backlash. With the ignition switch on, the slightest movement of the cam screw in the counter clockwise direction will open the points and you will hear an electrical pop and a spark at the points. I skip the test because if the trailing edge of the rotor tip is pointing in the correct spot with no clockwise backlash, the timing will be right on. I have years of experience setting model A timing. Some need to test with a screwdriver, I find that this confuses most to the point that they are unable to get the timing correct.

William Kelchner · 06-14-2013, 05:21 PM

For some reason I could never get the timing right on my 30. I followed Purdy Swoft's method. The beast has been running great ever since.

700rpm · 06-14-2013, 05:34 PM

I made a simple test light with a 6V bulb and alligator clips. Otherwise using Purdy's method for removing backlash, the bulb tells me exactly when the points open.

acurbhopper 2 · 06-14-2013, 11:42 PM

I think you are reading opposite as 180 degrees from no.1, but what it means is just before no. 1 in direction of rotation.

Tugmaster · 06-15-2013, 11:10 AM

There is actually a YouTube video on how to time you car. Look up "how to time a Model A"
Hope this helps.

amdriven2liv · 06-15-2013, 12:00 PM

Here is the video I watched:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwirH7f0a9o

msmaron · 06-15-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doot

Cranked her over.... Spit ... Sputter... No fire!
A couple of exhaust fume smoke...

Have you made sure your carb is NOT Clogged, fuel is flowing, air/gas mix set correctly...??

Doot · 06-16-2013, 01:16 PM

Okay....read all of your comments! I liked them all! I have to agree about the "opposite" wording problem....I will do the timing again, only this time, I won't turn the rotor "opposite" of the number one pin in the cap! Then I will get back to you.... I have a really bad cold, so it won't be for another day or two! Thank you all!

06-14-2013, 02:32 AM	#2
christian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Central NJ Posts: 238	Re: Timing?????!!!!! Once you are in TDC, loosen the rotor cam locking screw, rotate it a few times clockwise to remove backlash, then stop it just as the points close with the rotor pointing to the #1 distributor contact. If you did it correctly, the slightest movement counter clockwise should open the points. Not really sure what you mean about rotating 180 degrees.......... __________________ 1931 Slant Windshield fordor

06-14-2013, 02:33 AM	#3
christian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Central NJ Posts: 238	Re: Timing?????!!!!! Also, make us you set the points gap before you do the timing. As changing the points gap will effect your timing after the fact. __________________ 1931 Slant Windshield fordor

06-14-2013, 02:39 AM	#4
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Timing?????!!!!! There are a bunch of ways to to this. This method http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm not only explains the method but also the reason for the steps. Questions, was that coil you spoke about earlier; new or used, 12 volt or 6 volt? An incorrect or weak coil can also give those symptons. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II Last edited by Mike V. Florida; 06-14-2013 at 03:12 AM.

06-14-2013, 04:13 AM	#5
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: Timing?????!!!!! The easiest way is to: 1 Line up the cam timing gear with the pin by rotating the engine till the pin drops into the dimple. 2 Loosen the screw in the distributor cam and rotate the cam Counter-clockwise till the notch is in the general direction of the right headlight and the cam just touches the bumper on the points. Lock the cam with the screw. 3 Assemble the distributor and start the engine. Make sure you set the points and have the lever in the full retard position before beginning this sequence. I don't understand where you need to rotate the cam 180 degrees after locating #1. This would time the engine 180 degrees out of time and is most likely your problem. __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/

06-14-2013, 04:49 AM	#6
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Timing?????!!!!! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Poor choice of words in the manual, but OPPOSITE means NEXT TO, so you did good right up to the point where you moved it 180*

06-14-2013, 02:09 AM	#1
Doot Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Tyrone, Pa. Posts: 89	Timing?????!!!!! I did it exactly the way the book says.... 3 times! I used the little pin in front on main crank. Lined it up Turned rotor cam to line up on no.1 in distributer. Turned it 180 degrees opposite like it says... Set the points and rotor cam to the exact specs from the book... Put it all back together... Cranked her over.... Spit ... Sputter... No fire! A couple of exhaust fume smoke... That's it! What the f*ck is my solution? Thank you to all involved!

06-14-2013, 05:26 AM	#7
Wick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gwynn's Island Va Posts: 1,386	Re: Timing?????!!!!! If it spits,then just turn the rotor (pointed at #1) counterclock wise a 1/8" at a time untill she starts. After it starts,if you pull the spark lever all the way down and drive it....try and wind out second gear,it it doeset pull hard and it spits a little and seems to run hot,Then turn the rotor counterclock wise again. Do this untill she acts right. I know this is not the proper way to set the timing,but if your old school and did v-8s this way (I Did not own a timming light) it might make scense. This works great on VW-Bugs!

06-14-2013, 05:32 AM	#8
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Timing?????!!!!! I'm wondering if you are using a Model B timing cover, they are about 19º different.

06-14-2013, 07:34 AM	#9
Banky Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 201	Re: Timing?????!!!!! LISTEN TO TOM! I did the same exact thing.

06-14-2013, 08:59 AM	#10
John LaVoy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 1,219	Re: Timing?????!!!!! I was thinking Model B also.

06-14-2013, 10:49 AM	#11
zzlegend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Reseda, Calif. Posts: 2,188	Re: Timing?????!!!!! Tom has it right. That can be mis leading when it states, point the rotor opposite of number one.

06-14-2013, 10:59 AM	#12
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Timing?????!!!!! When you replaced the timing gear did you get the dots lined up correctly?? When setting the timing and then when you're trying to start it do you have the spark advance lever in the UP position?? Paul in CT

06-14-2013, 11:32 AM	#13
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Timing?????!!!!! Most of the timing instructions that I've seen in the how to books can be confusing to the newby model A owner. Some are confusing by a poor choice of words, others by adding tests that only add more confusion. A lot of problems are caused by the backlash in the distributor shaft (free movement in the dist. shaft).. Here is how I set mine. I first remove all of the spark plugs. There is NO need in fighting compression when tring to set the points or finding the dimple in the timing gear with the timing pin. I then set the points at .022 .. When the timing dimple is found with the timing pin, I loosen the points cam screw and set the rotor so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip is pointing at the number one contact in the distributor cap body. The distributor turns counter clockwise when the engine is running and the trailing edge of the rotor tip will be the rear edge when the rotor is turning counter clockwise, as when it is running. The number one contact in the cap body is the right front when standing on the passenger side. There will sometimes be 1/2 inch or more free movement or backlash in the distributor shaft. Counter clockwise backlash doesn't effect the timing. With The timing pin in the dimple of the cam gear, tighten the points cam so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip is pointing at the number one contact in the distributor cap with no clockwise backlash. In other words let the backlash ALL be in the counter clockwise direction when the points cam screw is tightened. It may take several tries because the points cam will try to turn as you tighten the screw. If clockwise rotation or backlash remains, the timing will be retarded the amount of the clock wise backlash that remains when the cam screw is tightened . To test, retard the spark lever, the points should be just about to open. With a screw driver that just fits the cam screw , back the screw up to the end of the clockwise backlash. With the ignition switch on, the slightest movement of the cam screw in the counter clockwise direction will open the points and you will hear an electrical pop and a spark at the points. I skip the test because if the trailing edge of the rotor tip is pointing in the correct spot with no clockwise backlash, the timing will be right on. I have years of experience setting model A timing. Some need to test with a screwdriver, I find that this confuses most to the point that they are unable to get the timing correct. Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 06-14-2013 at 11:40 AM.

06-14-2013, 05:21 PM	#14
William Kelchner Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Warrenton, Va. Posts: 459	Re: Timing?????!!!!! For some reason I could never get the timing right on my 30. I followed Purdy Swoft's method. The beast has been running great ever since.

06-14-2013, 05:34 PM	#15
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: Timing?????!!!!! I made a simple test light with a 6V bulb and alligator clips. Otherwise using Purdy's method for removing backlash, the bulb tells me exactly when the points open. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

06-14-2013, 11:42 PM	#16
acurbhopper 2 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 4	Re: Timing?????!!!!! I think you are reading opposite as 180 degrees from no.1, but what it means is just before no. 1 in direction of rotation.

06-15-2013, 11:10 AM	#17
Tugmaster Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Stonington Ct Posts: 34	Re: Timing?????!!!!! There is actually a YouTube video on how to time you car. Look up "how to time a Model A" Hope this helps.

06-15-2013, 12:00 PM	#18
amdriven2liv Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Vancouver, Wa. Posts: 96	Re: Timing?????!!!!! Here is the video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwirH7f0a9o __________________ We Walk for Kay 1928 Model A "Special" Coupe.

06-16-2013, 01:16 PM	#20
Doot Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Tyrone, Pa. Posts: 89	Re: Timing?????!!!!! Okay....read all of your comments! I liked them all! I have to agree about the "opposite" wording problem....I will do the timing again, only this time, I won't turn the rotor "opposite" of the number one pin in the cap! Then I will get back to you.... I have a really bad cold, so it won't be for another day or two! Thank you all!