Distributor drive gear

[willobs]

Can the Distibutor drive gear be replaced without pulling the head? I have to much play in turning rotor, what about the oversize gears anyway to tell if oversize needed? Thanks

[tbirdtbird]

you only need to remove the side cover

does the dizzy body need to be re-bushed? I would check that first. That is also easier to remedy since the side cover stays on.

There is supposed to be some lash in the gears

[willobs]

No side to side movement. only rotation!

[Brentwood Bob]

yes, it is located in the valve chamber , and is accessed by removing the valve cover. Easier with the intake and exhaust removed. Be careful if you haven't recently removed the distributor. It is prone to rust at the head, and bind up enough to resist removal. And do not pry up on the distributor body. the casting likes to break with this technique. buy the distributor puller if you have this situation.
les andrews has a procedure I would guess in his red manual.
Bob

[Joe K]

It can (be replaced without pulling the head) but you have to pull the distributor. The entire thimble that holds the distributor drive gear comes out through the valve chamber opening, but you have to have room to lift the thimble/gear "up" against it's retaining spring. With the distributor in place this can't happen.

IIRC, you remove the distributor, and accessing the thimble, lift up compressing it's retaining spring. Then the bottom of the thimble/drive gear assembly "tilts out" through a sort of "clearance slot" formed in the bottom of the valve chamber - and you have it in your hand.

Installation is the reverse of removal - sort of. You place the thimble/gear, and then use long nose pliers to reach in through the distributor hole and turn the gear and play around with it until the lower tongue end of the gear meshes with the oil pump. This is easier to do by dropping the pan and placing the oil pump AFTER the drive gear. You can turn the engine too somewhat as an experiment to get the helical gears to mesh and "catch" the oil pump too.

You can tell if you've succeeded with the oil pump when everything sets back in it's original position.

Then place the distributor and time and you're good to go!

Joe K

[tbirdtbird]

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it is not necessary to remove the manifolds

[Willie Krash]

Originally Posted by willobs

Can the Distibutor drive gear be replaced without pulling the head? I have to much play in turning rotor, what about the oversize gears anyway to tell if oversize needed? Thanks

How much is too much?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Willie Krash

How much is too much?

I was thinking the same thing. As long as the timing is set with the freeplay on the leading side of the rotor, I don't think it's any real problem.

Of course if the teeth are getting a knife edge, then it's time to replace them.

[Patrick L.]

How much lash is my same question ? The lash can also be in the drive shafts not just the drive gear.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Have much lash is my same question ? The lash can also be in the drive shafts not just the drive gear.

I know one of the reasons that Bill Stipe started making cam-shafts was the developing issue of the helical thread being worn at the distributor drive gear. Bill might be able to help us by telling about his "worst case" seen - which might not help that much - but would be at least a place to start.

One can see though that backlash in this are alone is not fatal - action of the engine and timing gearing is primarily "forward" and the tendency is for the gear to always sit/wear to the same side as in "free play is taken up" - and you time the engine according to that basis and always in the forward direction.

This is a general statement. Accelerating/decelerating the engine COULD make the backlash in this area go to the other side of the wear margin - as could (even) the action of the lobes of the point cam (IIRC are more pronounced on the B cam - I may have to check this thought over at FordGarage.)

On one of the engines I tore down for inspection the prior owner had stuffed the tongues of the distributor with leather to take up free play - perhaps he had issues with performance and found the leather to improve his problem somewhat? That engine sits so I can't confirm that thought.

And wear of the timing/crankshaft gear is another ball of wax entirely since it affects not only the ignition timing - but also the valve timing. But the best part about the timing/crank gear is that the incremental wear is spread out over a larger diameter - and not so much change to start and finish of events can occur for the same degree of wear as it can with the smaller diameter camshaft/distributor drive gear?

Jest some thoughts.

Joe K

[willobs]

Thanks for all the posts. The reason I suspected to much lash was engine in 30 CCPU said to be rebuilt 7 years ago less than 10K use. I have had 3 years, truck runs 55 mph very easy no overheating, but will not idle slowly. Engine bored 125, lightened flywheel, 5.5 snyder head, original type points. will not run good when timed Ford way, Red book way also used the new type NuRex wrench. If the rotor is set at a contact point in cap you have 2 widths of the rotor tip free play!

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by willobs

Thanks for all the posts. The reason I suspected to much lash was engine in 30 CCPU said to be rebuilt 7 years ago less than 10K use. I have had 3 years, truck runs 55 mph very easy no overheating, but will not idle slowly. Engine bored 125, lightened flywheel, 5.5 snyder head, original type points. will not run good when timed Ford way, Red book way also used the new type NuRex wrench. If the rotor is set at a contact point in cap you have 2 widths of the rotor tip free play!

You may be able to use a timing light and a clear distributor cap and see if there is any "waiver" of that distributor action.

Joe K

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you are lucky you will just need a new shaft.

[Joe K]

Tom, that's what the shaft tongue looks like the one that was stuffed with leather.

Joe K

[willobs]

Thanks everyone, never thought of the tongue on shaft wearing, had gear slop in my head. will check it when I have time

[Brentwood Bob]

originally the shaft was a 2 piece so check both, the female end also wears out.
A single shaft is not as good a choice. The original 2 shaft design was not as ridgid.
I think the rotor turns smoother with the correct, 2 piece shaft.
Bob

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

originally the shaft was a 2 piece so check both, the female end also wears out.
A single shaft is not as good a choice. The original 2 shaft design was not as ridgid.
I think the rotor turns smoother with the correct, 2 piece shaft.
Bob

Why is it not a good choice ?? I have never had any problem with them, & as you said, its just one less shaft to wear out..

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by willobs

Thanks for all the posts. The reason I suspected to much lash was engine in 30 CCPU said to be rebuilt 7 years ago less than 10K use. I have had 3 years, truck runs 55 mph very easy no overheating, but will not idle slowly. Engine bored 125, lightened flywheel, 5.5 snyder head, original type points. will not run good when timed Ford way, Red book way also used the new type NuRex wrench. If the rotor is set at a contact point in cap you have 2 widths of the rotor tip free play!

I doesn't hurt to check that out as it's a quick repair to replace... but I don't think that's going to cure your idle problem. I might be wrong and don't know how much your flywheel has been shaved, or rpm your idle is set too... but in my experience a lightened flywheel engine won't idle as smoothly as a stock flywheel. I think you have other issues. The rotating motion of the shafts will be fine with the engine running. They all have some backlash slop in the rotor.

Larry S.

[willobs]

Thanks for all the input. My shaft makes Tom,s look good it looks like a knife blade! have ordered a new one.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by willobs

Thanks for all the input. My shaft makes Tom,s look good it looks like a knife blade! have ordered a new one.

You mean there is one worse than the one I removed from a customer's car?
Did you also check the lower shaft?
I think this shows the importance of keeping the engine and distributor full of clean oil.

[willobs]

Yes iit is worse! will check lower shaft, is the only oil to this area thru distributor oiling?
Seems to be dry and rusty in the area

Thanks

[Tom Wesenberg]

When running the engine that is where the condensation likes to settle, so I give the shafts a good coat of grease when I install them. Antiseize on the distributor will help to keep it from rusting in place.

[tbirdtbird]

But, Tom, it came with oil from the factory!

[lesismore]

I too have a stuck distributor, ordered the tool, but quick question...If the engine and crank turn freely when trying to start and distributor is not turning, is my issue more severe? Or is that typical? Seems to me, if the distributor is stuck and not spinning, it would bind when engine turns, correct?

[hardtimes]

If your engine is 'turning over', the distributor is connected mechanically thru shaft(s)/ cam gear, etc. It dist NOT turning, most likely you have a serious mechanical failure, i.e.- broken shafts/broken drive gears. Pull the dist and look at end. Start there.

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by lesismore

I too have a stuck distributor, ordered the tool, but quick question...If the engine and crank turn freely when trying to start and distributor is not turning, is my issue more severe? Or is that typical? Seems to me, if the distributor is stuck and not spinning, it would bind when engine turns, correct?

YEA not good.

Can you spin the distributor cam all the way around?
Could also be a stripped timing gear. Pull a plug and see if valves open and close with the crank.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by lesismore

I too have a stuck distributor, ordered the tool, but quick question...If the engine and crank turn freely when trying to start and distributor is not turning, is my issue more severe? Or is that typical? Seems to me, if the distributor is stuck and not spinning, it would bind when engine turns, correct?

It sounds to me as though you have a bad camshaft gear. Thats the likely culprit. The distributor shaft or drive gear could be bad, but, the cam gear most likely is missing a few teeth.

[tbirdtbird]

gotta love that fiber gear...

[rocket1]

some claim that the one piece dist. shaft will wear the housing bushings faster,I don't know if this is true or not.

[lesismore]

So I got the distributor puller, threaded it into the shaft, removed the screw on the block, then started to slowly tighten the nut on the puller, reached reasonable torque than pulled back. How much is too much? What else can be holding it in? Or am I just babying it? I am afraid to break anything. Am I missing something or do I just have it stuck good and have to keep working at it? Thoughts?

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you are using the distributor puller tool, then you should break the housing. They can get very stuck. Did you spray Kroil in the setscrew hole and on the head?

[lesismore]

In the set screw hole but nowhere else, where should I spray it? At the base of housing or inside of housing somewhere? Are you saying with the tool I will break the housing regardless? So if I really muscle it, I can't hurt anything? I just need to break its seal?

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Willobs: what is the cam in your engine? That will definitely change idle speed and timing.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Spray where the distributor meets the head. Since the tools pulls on the distributor shaft, and the shaft will be pushing straight up on the center of the casting, you should never have to worry about breaking the housing.

Prying on the side of the body is what can easily break the housing.

[lesismore]

OK, will continue to soak, so there is nothing but crud holding it in at this point? Cranking on the puller will do no internal damage correct? Should I pull the side cover to watch progress? Sorry for the questions, never had a distributor problem an any of my As, this new one is causing some stress.

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

It sounds to me as though you have a bad camshaft gear. Thats the likely culprit. The distributor shaft or drive gear could be bad, but, the cam gear most likely is missing a few teeth.

Possibly, but then it wouldn't be running great at 55 mph........
I suggest you look at all the associated parts. Pull the side timing gear cover (2 bolts on side and oil pan bolt) to inspect the timing gear teeth. Rotate engine full revolution to inspect the timing gear.
you can also check for backlash at that point ( although the cam is under load) but can carefully pry to see if you have excessive backlash. I doubt it though.

Correcting instructions....As indicated by another post about removing the drive gear assembly you do not "pry up on the drive gear against the spring"..... you remove the spring following the distributor removal and intermediate shaft, by pushing down on the spring and pivoting top of the spring out towards you... then lift the distributor drive assembly out of engine block. Inspect & service if tang/gear worn. Reverse to install.

It is normal for there to have a little play of the rotor rotation ( but not fit on cam - must be snug on cam). You can install a new intermediate shaft and check distributor mating slot for wear/fit .

I suspect if you have a lightened flywheel, or modified cam, etc.. that is your source of an idle not silk smooth, of course taking into account your carb and distributor are set/properly functioning. I would also check for a planed surface on your intake/exhaust manifold and good gasket as if they are sucking air they will cause poor idling ( among other things) as well.
I've tightening many a intake manifold bolts when idle didn't sound good. If you get lucky and the intake is flat and the gasket is still decent, just a little loose it's worth a check. I torque all evenly to 35 ft lbs.

And... I hate to make this simple but make sure you don't have any vacuum wiper leaks, sucking air! If in doubt put in an 1/8 pipe plug temporarily in the intake to eliminate it till you are for sure.

Setting points and timing is really simple on these... you don't need any fancy nurex tool, timing light, etc. Set you points according to the service bulletins taking into account the backlash and they will be right on every time.

Good luck!
Larry Shepard

[larrys40]

for removing the distributor with the puller as Tom said use penetrating oil in the distributor hold down hole ( bolt/nut removed) and soak where distributor meets head . The one think I don't like about the distributor puller is .. it's only as strong as the small pin on the bottom shaft pin collar. Soft pins shear. soak, tap lightlight on top of housing with brass hammer, use careful common sense to keep upward tension and pull from puller on it. It will come. Clean and use antiseize when re-installing.
Larry S.

[willobs]

Chuck, I have no idea what cam is in my Engine, But replacing both worn shafts made a big improvement in idle and running! Thanks to all that offered advise, Ford Barn is Great!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by willobs

Chuck, I have no idea what cam is in my Engine, But replacing both worn shafts made a big improvement in idle and running! Thanks to all that offered advise, Ford Barn is Great!

The stock Model A distributor cam will have 8 distinct lines, one at each end of the lobe, while the B cam will only have 4 distinct lines. I can find and post a picture if you like.