Blaming of the Ford Flathead.

[37 Coupe]

I am just wondering if others have lived through the last 50 years or so of loving or respecting the Flathead and not blaming it for every problem. I have my experiences with the engine ,the cars and trucks and the detractors in my 70+ years. The detractors being the Chevy engine installers to eliminate all the "problems" they have incurred. These folk have been very good to me over the years for the discarded parts I have accumulated. My '37 coupe has hydraulic brakes ,transmission and other mechanical parts from a low mileage '39 Ford that was streetrodded. I just always have been amazed of those who blame so many problems on these great engines. The most recent occurrence has to have beaten every one I have heard over the last 50 years. Local guy who is at least 5 years older than me added a great restored Forty coupe to his collection about 10 years or so ago. About 5 years ago he decided to add pair of aluminum heads and two carb manifold,he farmed the job out to a street rod builder who had no flathead Ford experience before. First thing they did was bust off quite a few studs,frustrated they quit on the job and left the car sit for a couple years stalling the owner. I would have brought the car home myself but he kept after them thinking no one else could do the job I guess. about 4 years into the duration which was last year they somehow got the studs out fixed and the Edelbrock heads on the engine.The engine is the correct original 85 hp one but when they fired it up the valves hit the heads and bent or busted them. Heads were brand new out the box. A call to Edelbrock did not help,mayby they fit 59AB valve placement and not the '39 '40 engine I do not know but now is where the old "Blame the Flathead comes in. All the engines fault and a brand new crate 350 is going in."Done with Flatheads,don't want anymore trouble" he says. I just will never understand it especially the other guys in town who say he finally is doing it right.My rant is over,Thank You.

[tubman]

I was going to compose an eloquent response to this, but let's face it; this is the way things are these days. We can't do anything about it except to try to keep our own cars original. Sorry to say "Money Talks".

[Ol' Ron]

Hard to believe the valves hit the heads. The 64cc heads will clear a 400 jr

[mhsprecher]

It's never their fault, always someone else's. it's like when I have problems, just tak your time, read the book, get some good advice. It usually works out. A little knowledge, experience and humility goes a long way.

[37 Coupe]

Okay then a question. Wasn't the valve position different on the early 24 stud engines,late '38-39-40 41? I know that KR Wilson made a cutting fixture to fit the early 24 stud "A" heads to later block or visa versa. I always thought that the Edelbrock and Offy heads fit all 24 stud blocks 39-48. Anyway actual point I am trying to make with my original post is the blame on the engine itself for not understanding self inflicted problems.

[Binx]

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That really is an odd ending. Maybe he was nostalgic for the flathead but realized time wasn't on his side and went for the cash?

Lonnie

[JM 35 Sedan]

A friends son is building what he is calling a traditional style '32 roadster hotrod. He is doing a first class job on this project. Brookville body, Shadow Rod '32 frame, Winters V8 QC rear, race car steering like the Rolling Bones use in their cars, etc., etc. He was originally planning to go with a flathead engine until his dad (who grew up in the flathead era) talked him into going with an early 50's/60's sbc engine instead. His dad's reasoning was "those Ford flathead V8's are just not reliable enough for a car that will be driven on long trips, including crosscountry runs to Bonneville, LA Roaster Show, etc." My reply was...if built correctly, the flathead engine can be just as reliable as the sbc. Then his reasoning became.....what about availability of engine parts if/when you breakdown on the road? Parts for sbc's can be easily purchased anywhere, but where do you buy engine replacement parts for a flathead when you breakdown in the middle of nowhere? So, needless to say, his dad convinced him to go sbc. The car should be finished sometime late in 2017. Will be interesting to see how it does over time on the long hauls.

[deuce_roadster]

The Edelbrock site lists the heads as fitting 38-48 so they should fit any 24 stud engine. Something else was wrong.
When everything is right, the flathead is as reliable as anything else. Putting the crate engine in would be the beginning of the guy's problems judging from the quality of the work involving the flathead.

[deuce_roadster]

Ha ha a "traditional" car. I call those UPS cars as all the parts arrive in brown truck. Everything in/on it is new.

[37 Coupe]

John,when you were growing up,car wise,like myself in the early to mid sixties did you like or think the Chevy engine was the way to go? I got subscriptions to Hot Rod magazine,still have them,and I was convinced if I ever built a car that would be my way to go. I always liked the small blocks though,265,283 and 327,still don't mind those era engines but never built that way or even owned a Chevy. I don't begrudge that someone wants to go this route but not for me now. I built a '53 F-100 thirty years ago with the original flathead power steering assist and AC I actually had a local street rodder/exhaust shop bender refuse to make me a stainless steel dual exhaust because of my stupid engine choice on such a nice truck. he told me to come back when I was smart enough to swap it out for 350 like he had in his fiberglass '34.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

The Edelbrock site lists the heads as fitting 38-48 so they should fit any 24 stud engine. Something else was wrong.
When everything is right, the flathead is as reliable as anything else. Putting the crate engine in would be the beginning of the guy's problems judging from the quality of the work involving the flathead.

I am going to try to get this engine if he will sell it to me.I think it would be fun to check it out. It could have been a quality control issue with the machining but he had them in the box for years and Edelbrock was more interested in current runs, so I was told. supposedly nothing else was done to the engine.Original heads off from a running engine, broken studs finally fixed,new heads on, start ,run shut down quick with lots noise.

[Charlie ny]

In my opinion it is the seemingly obscure details in any project that end up trashing
things. I work with hot rod shops locally that routinely sort out Ford Coyote and
Chevy LS and LT motor issues, no problem. If they get a Flathead car to build or
debug I'm on their speed dial. I wish I was a few years younger is all.
Charlie ny

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

John,when you were growing up,car wise,like myself in the early to mid sixties did you like or think the Chevy engine was the way to go? I got subscriptions to Hot Rod magazine,still have them,and I was convinced if I ever built a car that would be my way to go. I always liked the small blocks though,265,283 and 327,still don't mind those era engines but never built that way or even owned a Chevy. I don't begrudge that someone wants to go this route but not for me now. I built a '53 F-100 thirty years ago with the original flathead power steering assist and AC I actually had a local street rodder/exhaust shop bender refuse to make me a stainless steel dual exhaust because of my stupid engine choice on such a nice truck. he told me to come back when I was smart enough to swap it out for 350 like he had in his fiberglass '34.

Yes, I went through that same phase. Hotrod magazine subscription starting in 59. Bought a 35 3w coupe about that same year. Pulled the freeze cracked original 21 stud engine and installed a 59a 24 stud, then later replaced that with an 8ba. In the mid 60's I did the unthinkable, replaced the 8ba with a '64 327 sbc that dropped right in place like it was made just for this conversion.
But today I would not have any other engine in my old Ford than a flathead V8, and I have no concern about driving my 35 fordor sedan most anywhere I want to go.

[alanwoodieman]

I have the tool in question and it was made to open up the "A" heads to accept the 59ab engine valves, which were at a slightly different angle. this enabled the use of A heads on the 59ab block

[slowforty]

I dont know what reliable is but I have driven my 40 Ford for 27 years with a Flathead Engine that has 60 lbs of compression. It goes down the road just fine as long as you keep oil in it. I have taken it on many trips 150 miles long.

[Lawrie]

I,m with you John,we are off away in our 33 towing our caravan for two weeks traveling around,most likely will cover 1200-1500 kms,our only concern it to take enough water,not for the 33 but for us,they are forecasting 40C this week.
Lawrie

[OHV DeLuxe]

Even living in Norway i face the same strange ideas, old american cars are quite common over here and "everybody" knows about the flatheads but most are afraid of them.
I can honestly say i am one of those who have opened the hurd`s eyes on good old fashioned reliability. A handful flatheads done right, still runs perfectly. two 1943 Ford GPWs done right by my father in 1972 and 1987, still runs perfectly. BSA 500 done right in 1985, still runs perfectly. 1946 Knucklehead, done right 2006, still runs perfectly, all my brothers 50`s Panheads runs like nothing else.
Whats the big deal? Whats not to love about this stuff?
Only things i hate are heavy bumblebees in my forehead and crappy cheap condensors, bad condensors really costs time and money, but now i have the test equipment for them also. That helps.

[flatford8]

I posted in another thread about buying a complete running gear plus the radiator and steering box out of a nice '37 that was being street rodded. If we cant save the cars we gotta save the parts...... Mark

[Henry Floored]

Till the day I die I won't understand the correlation between a generic motors engine and a Ford car.

Who would ever think of doing this?

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Yes, I went through that same phase. Hotrod magazine subscription starting in 59. Bought a 35 3w coupe about that same year. Pulled the freeze cracked original 21 stud engine and installed a 59a 24 stud, then later replaced that with an 8ba. In the mid 60's I did the unthinkable, replaced the 8ba with a '64 327 sbc that dropped right in place like it was made just for this conversion.
But today I would not have any other engine in my old Ford than a flathead V8, and I have no concern about driving my 35 fordor sedan most anywhere I want to go.

I forgot that I did own a Chevy powered Ford at one time. I bought a 1946 Ford convertible that had an early 265 Chevy engine in 1976,we were both 30 years old I guess. I drove the car home and drove it around for a couple months until I pulled the engine and one of those times where I tore it down and never got back to it. Sold the engine and later the car but found out later it was a pretty rare engine with the 4 barrel . Guess it was one of those deals where I should have kept driving it and not reading the V8 Times.

[Vic Piano]

I've been driving and messin' with Flatheads for 51 years now, and I've developed a love/hate relationship with each one. To try and understand them, I equate Ford Flatheads to women... They are beautiful but at times can be ugly. They are sweet and kind but can also be nasty and mean... they can provide unequaled amounts of pleasure and pain. But, in the end, all is forgiven. I guess love conquers all when it comes to women and Flatheads.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

I've been driving and messin' with Flatheads for 51 years now, and I've developed a love/hate relationship with each one. To try and understand them, I equate Ford Flatheads to women... They are beautiful but at times can be ugly. They are sweet and kind but can also be nasty and mean... they can provide unequaled amounts of pleasure and pain. But, in the end, all is forgiven. I guess love conquers all when it comes to women and Flatheads.

And in my world its the thermostats fault ,wife and flatheads.

[Jason in TX]

I believe it is as simple as people like old stuff, but we are also impatient and want a quick solution.

Finding all the right old parts takes a long time of searching. Ordering all the reproduction parts from speedway is right now, but doesn't have the same end result.

Getting flathead parts can take a week after something breaks. Getting SBC parts is around the corner at Autozone.

I respect the OHV engine. They are great. I have great respect for the person who took 5 years to collect all the right parts and then build a car. It shows patience, respect for what we like about these vehicles, the nostalgia and history, not a facsimile of something old.

I drive a Model A 4 cylinder all over the country and keep spare parts under the seat in case it breaks. For a flathead, you can keep spare water pumps, spare carb, spare fuel pump, spare head gaskets and even an aluminum cam gear if you are really freaked out about the flatty self destructing. Flatheads are super easy to work on actually if you take the time to read the book. I think a lot of the car guys around now are from the SBC era, so it's just what they know.

[Seth Swoboda]

I blame the flathead engine for my addiction to Early V8's.

[37 Coupe]

I have a Flathead Ford buddy who has been working on and off of his 36 3 window for well over 52 years. He had estimates to paint it over the years from $300.00 to a couple grand and finally got it painted 3 or 4 years ago for quite a bit. He has been contemplating the correct mufflers to buy for the last two years.At near 80 years old we keep encouraging him to wrap it up and get some enjoyment out of his car. I do understand this a bit but not the duration.I have always enjoyed the hunt for parts and the project itself other than the cleaning and maintenance later on.

[1942deluxe]

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Part of the problem is our modern cars don't need maintenance for the most part. The flathead era cars did require frequent maintenance and now are 63-84 years old. I've told people over and over again people DROVE these cars when they were new and they didn't have them because they were unreliable. To get a 70+ year old car to that point takes time, money and knowledge. In an instant gratification society many people aren't willing to make that effort.

[mhsprecher]

I bought two flatties a year ago. I guess I should have just bought one, but I liked them both. Neither is reliable, yet, but I am learning a lot as I go along. Hopefully one is fixed and the other soon. For my reliable antique, I use my Model A Town Sedan and the roadster for nicer weather.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by 1942deluxe

Part of the problem is our modern cars don't need maintenance for the most part. The flathead era cars did require frequent maintenance and now are 63-84 years old. I've told people over and over again people DROVE these cars when they were new and they didn't have them because they were unreliable. To get a 70+ year old car to that point takes time, money and knowledge. In an instant gratification society many people aren't willing to make that effort.

Bingo. Most people now days couldn't change a tire, if they were lucky enough to find the spare. I'm 36. I know people my same age that only know if you turn the key the engine starts. Beyond that, hopeless.

[ursus]

My favorite experience is when the new age machinist buggers up a flathead engine and then tries to explain away the problem as a fault of the design. Note that this regards an engine that has been running since before his parents were born.

[Brian]

My favorite experience is when the new age machinist buggers up a flathead engine and then tries to explain away the problem as a fault of the design


And then has the gaul to charge you!!!!

[Darrell S]

Originally Posted by 1942deluxe

Part of the problem is our modern cars don't need maintenance for the most part. The flathead era cars did require frequent maintenance and now are 63-84 years old. I've told people over and over again people DROVE these cars when they were new and they didn't have them because they were unreliable. To get a 70+ year old car to that point takes time, money and knowledge. In an instant gratification society many people aren't willing to make that effort.

Amen to that. I took the 48 out the other day when it had quit raining and thoroughly enjoyed driving it around. I like getting in it, starting it and hearing it run. One lady next to me at a light rolled down the window of her Hyundai and asked if I wanted to trade. I just smiled and shook my head no. It wouldn't be the same car with an SBC and a turbo hydro.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Ha ha a "traditional" car. I call those UPS cars as all the parts arrive in brown truck. Everything in/on it is new.

When I said traditional in my earlier post, I really should have said tradional "style", since this car is a mixture of original, new, and carefully hand crafted parts, but this car will certainly not be a UPS delivered package of assembled parts

This car has been completely assembled over the last several years, but recently the body and other parts have been removed for painting. Can't wait to see this one finished!! Many of these pictures have been previously posted on Facebook by the owner/builder, so I am hoping he does not mind me reposting them here....

[JM 35 Sedan]

and a few more......

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Bingo. Most people now days couldn't change a tire, if they were lucky enough to find the spare. I'm 36. I know people my same age that only know if you turn the key the engine starts. Beyond that, hopeless.

Blame this on poor parenting! Or maybe grandparenting. Somewhere along the line parents quit teaching practical life lessons like checking/changing oil, spark plugs, tires and other maintenance. Not the kids' fault. They only know what they are taught.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

and a few more......

I think just one picture of the engine with the distributor next to the firewall on this forum is one enough.

[tony starr]

Is it me or does that small block sit very high on the chassis? Maybe I'm just used to seeing flat motors.

--

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tony starr

Is it me or does that small block sit very high on the chassis? Maybe I'm just used to seeing flat motors.

--

IT does sit a smidge high. The chassis also rides pretty low. I guess it's possible he was trying to keep that pan from dragging on the asphalt. DD

[tony starr]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

IT does sit a smidge high. The chassis also rides pretty low. I guess it's possible he was trying to keep that pan from dragging on the asphalt. DD

Yes, that is very low!

[keith oh]

I am so old I remember when about the only switch for large V/8s were Cadillac, called them Fordallacs. Even the early ones were flatheads, Huge monsters which caused many torn up transmissions and rear ends. Those were the good old days if you had the money, patience, skill and time to work on them.

[deuce_roadster]

The trans tunnel in the floor shows how high the running gear is in the chassis. Also, look at the rear tire in the wheel well area. Hey, at least it is a Brookville body and aftermarket frame. Kind of different in that the body/frame is low but the running gear is moved up, low like a channeled car but not channeled. To each his own, workmanship looks good.

[37 Coupe]

I never liked the channeled '32 body that hides the beautifull '32 frame rails but somehow someone found a way to do this without covering it up. In the late'50's mayby 1960 a local guy won a real nice '32 roadster in a Columbus Ohio car club raffle.I was only 13 or 14 and my dad took me to his garage to see it. It was great but he ended up channeling it so low and he was well over six feet my dad always told him he looked like a frog on a lilly pad when he went down the road. About 1970 he sold the car but he let the guy go before the money cleared and he had nothing but the title.Bet the guy just wanted a roadster body. I had a chance to get the title I should have.