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05-27-2022, 10:08 PM | #21 | |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
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UNTIL my 1988 Chevy K1500 PU. I bought it used in '89 with 15k miles on it, and the brakes just never felt right. I checked or changed everything I could to get them to work right. I finally went to the Chevy dealer where I had once worked and got to talking with one of the top mechanics. He told me that Chevy had a recall on the MC booster...they were too small. It was Chevy's fault, and it still cost me a hundred bucks. |
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05-27-2022, 10:49 PM | #22 | |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
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Now if people can be made to understand how a dual master functions and the need to design for full pedal travel if they are to gain any "safety" by the installation of one. |
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05-28-2022, 02:21 AM | #23 | |||
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
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What I do not agree with is their use of a SPIN FOR DOLLARS ANTI-BIAS VALVE. The things are dangerous for a street car .
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05-28-2022, 02:27 AM | #24 | ||
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
Quote:
Quote:
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05-28-2022, 03:12 AM | #25 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
Here (IMO) is a good tutorial on MC operation. Mind you that a much later style is being discussed but the dynamics are the same.
So grab a cold adult malt beverage and some snicky-snacks and peruse - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be4wNFSvxLc
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05-28-2022, 10:06 AM | #26 | |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
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05-28-2022, 01:47 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
BTW, what's the opinion (if any) on bleeding the proportioning valve during installation? I bench bled the master cylinder for my car and when it was installed I hooked up the lines to the proportioning valve and bled those components (with clear hoses back to the MC.) I don't think I read to do that in the manual or anywhere else, but it seemed like a good idea. Maybe it wasn't. Of course once I got all the other lines hooked up, I bled the whole system. Is bleeding the proportioning valve by itself an unnecessary step? Or even a bad idea?
58Yeoman said: Quote:
I put the dual reservoirs in my T-Bird and wagon because it was my understanding that there's even better safety with those types of systems. Thanks to this thread, I'm learning that the truth is more complicated than that, and will proceed from this point with that new understanding. I had never even heard of a PDV or a pressure residual valve before this thread. Many thanks to KULTULZ and others for the education on these type brake systems. I WILL follow up on this stuff for my car. |
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05-29-2022, 12:18 AM | #28 | ||
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
Quote:
The only time you should need to bleed a PDV is after a system failure and repair and the pintel fails to center after the system bleed. Then you would bleed line(s) @ the PDV until it centered. Quote:
In the photo you showed of the MC INSTALL - I do not see a switch to activate a WARNING LAMP on the dash so it must just be an ADJ PPV? Was the OEM PPV you removed a cylindrical cast iron or a brass valve? Is there any way you can show or give the lengths of the two boosters? The aftermarket booster along with their MC gave you the clearance needed for the MC to clear the apron reinforcement?
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05-29-2022, 03:11 PM | #29 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
My head hurts. I am sure I will be going through this when I get to that point.
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05-29-2022, 04:47 PM | #30 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
Brakes are very complicated. The original engineers took into account weight or load of vehicle at the time of manufacture. They would vary brake shoe width, drum size, wheel and master cylinder size. They would alter suspension mounting points to reduce nose dive on panic stops. I can't out think an entire branch of Dearborn so I just stick with what Ford said was good for me at the time. I once owned a 64 Thunderbird with all drum brakes only modification was radial tires. It stopped good, not on a dime but enough to leave a goose egg on your forehead. I also still own a 78 5.0 Fairmont. I swapped in a rear end from a new 82 Mustang, the rear brakes would lock at slightest touch. All the brake parts were the same, except the wheel cylinders were 1/32? smaller on the Mustang rear. Installed new Fairmont cylinders and back to normal. That 1 tiny change made a world of difference. I understand dual circuit brakes but don't think they are going to save you. Maintenance and driver awareness will. Just my take on it. My wife of 30+ years knows couple of jobs I will not do for friends or family, 1 is brakes and other is automatic transmissions. FI cars is a close 3rd.
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06-04-2022, 12:09 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
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You know, that CHINESEUM FLASH CHROME cuts the wind resistance through the traps. All that flash under the hood helps confuse the TECH INSPECTOR and you can get away with more ... The problem is that they allowed the plating to reach the threads. Hope they also use this on their tanks ...
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06-05-2022, 10:47 AM | #32 | |||
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
1955-1957 BIRD FRONT DISC CONVERSION Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Gil Baumgartner CTCI Authenticity Chairman ... say what ... ?
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06-05-2022, 11:48 AM | #33 | ||
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
- ADDENDUM CONTINUATION - 1955-1957 BIRD FRONT DISC CONVERSION Quote:
A 10# RESIDUAL VALVE does not hold the shoes closer to the drum at rest. Only proper adjustment and/or self adjusters will do that. The purpose of the valve is to not allow the wheel cylinder(s) pistons to slam shut after application release (return spring pressure) so as to prevent wheel cylinder cup shuddering allowing either fluid leakage and/or air ingestion. And yes, it (RPV) does affect pedal height on a DISC/DRUM APPLICATION. The industry went to WHEEL CYLINDERS with CUP EXPANDERS later to eliminate the valve but this was generally on a different style drum brake (not self-energizing). Quote:
TOP SHOWN - PDV and PPV BOTTOM SHOWN - PDV - PPV - FRONT METERING FORD usually had the RPV in the MC DRUM CIRCUIT FLUID OUTLET. Gil Baumgartner CTCI Authenticity Chairman ... say what ... ? ... yes, I am retaining water but I hope this shows how important it is when buying a kit and/or making brake modification(s) a correct source of information is supplied. And this is across the board.
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06-08-2022, 07:02 PM | #34 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
I changed over my 67 ElCamino to front disc, and DOT-4. I got the system from Performance Suspension Technologies. They were the vendor that for years advertised on the back cover of Hemmings. It worked perfectly. My advice, but an engineered system that way it will all work together.
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06-08-2022, 09:26 PM | #35 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
In line with what Gene said above, an acquaintance with a 56 Ford put a front disc system on from Prestige Thunderbird. He’s local and was able to go over and go thru it in detail. He was impressive with their knowledge and research, and has been pretty happy with it. There are some vendors who do have good systems and there are some who just throw parts in a box and ship it. The hard part is telling the difference.
I have an OT ‘67 with a well engineered and completely modified suspension, done by a major vendor. They told me the whole brake system was a Wilwood design, from the pedal ratio to the pads. All their parts and design. If I were ever to do a conversion again I’d look into it with them. Probably have a heart at when I got the price, but I’d bet it was right. |
06-09-2022, 08:56 AM | #36 | |||
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
Quote:
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-'TYPICAL' BIRD FRONT DISC KIT- Quote:
On their 2018 catalog (PRESTIGE), there is no mention of a separate COMBINATION VALVE being available, although it seems someone at other vendors woke up at some point and offered them separately. CTGI says their MC does not contain an RPV for the drum circuit and had to have an external installed. Most likely a CHI-COM MC. This is what I am trying to get across. But I seem to be wasting my time.
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06-09-2022, 09:07 AM | #37 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
I keep it real simple. I still trust a single master system on drum brakes. Providing all components are in good shape. My Ford has a dual master and front discs. No fancy plumbing, just a distribution block that takes the old Ford pressure switch.
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06-10-2022, 08:33 AM | #38 | |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
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And this car is street driven?
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06-12-2022, 04:56 PM | #39 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
I did too until I learned the value of one when I went over an embankment in a 62 CHEV, convertible at that.
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06-18-2022, 04:29 AM | #40 |
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Re: Brakes - Wives Tales & Misconceptions
Tagging these threads -
AXLE HOUSING SEALS - https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=313498 BRAKE DRUM DIA - LINING WIDTH - LINING LENGTH https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314448 - within the discussion as it describes rear drum brake woes. AND THIS - REAR BRAKE SELF-ADJUSTERS ADDITION - https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314775
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