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Old 03-20-2017, 02:04 AM   #1
hardtimes
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Default banjo rear Q...

Any year of Ford banjo rear built better/stronger than other years ?
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:47 AM   #2
JM 35 Sedan
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

There was a change in the banjo housing inner rib configuration between '35 to '48, most likely to strengthen support for the pinion and its bearing mounting. I may have some pictures to post that show this change. Not sure exactly which year this occurred.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

The V8 axle from 32 through 34 was starting to get better. The 35 & 36 were improved a bit more and are very near the same as later but have different bearings in the differential carrier. The 37 though 48 are all very similar in structural strength but the width changed in 1942.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan View Post
There was a change in the banjo housing inner rib configuration between '35 to '48, most likely to strengthen support for the pinion and its bearing mounting. I may have some pictures to post that show this change. Not sure exactly which year this occurred.
Pictures might help explain.
So, '35 and later is your recommendation for better/best model to start with. Thanks
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtimes View Post
Pictures might help explain.
So, '35 and later is your recommendation for better/best model to start with. Thanks
No, not necessarily, I was trying to answere the OP's question. There is a difference that I have seen in some of the banjo housings in the '35 thru '48 years. This difference could have been due to different manufacturers, or it could have been an attempt to strengthen the housing. Here are two pictures that may help explain the change I mentioned. I could take and post some better pics if needed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pressing pinion gear & brgs from banjo hsg (5).jpg (23.6 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg 35 Ford Banjo Rear Rebuild 25.jpg (34.8 KB, 70 views)
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

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heres a photo. on left, 32-34, note the snout for the drive shaft is a little shorter because of smaller pinion bearings. center, 35 up to ?, note the web coming off the rear pinion bearing is only a small triangle on each side, on right the later unit with rear bearing web now running about half way around the case
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File Type: jpg IMG_1058.jpg (70.9 KB, 75 views)
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:39 AM   #7
rotorwrench
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

None of the banjo axles made between the 1932 V8 axle and the end of use in 1948 are considered to be all that strong. 1937 through 41 are decent for the early cars and the wider ones are made for the 1942 thru 48 width. The main weakness is the axle shafts. With a tapered hub mount and key way, they can be subject to breakage under repeated heavy torque event loads but they are adequate for normal driving purposes. Some like the 1935 & 36 axles for their bone arrangement. They have been used for open drive conversions for a long time even though they aren't quite as sturdy as the later rear axle assemblies. They are fine for normal use & mild abuse. Most folks always recommend hub retainers on the rear end just to make sure you are prepared for axle breakage.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

You can always replace the axle shafts with modern alternatives! LOL
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File Type: jpg Axle End.jpg (23.5 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg Axles with Bearing Installed.jpg (28.1 KB, 42 views)

Last edited by JSeery; 03-21-2017 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

I did exactly that, J
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

I would too if I was going to the trouble of putting in a quick change gear set up or something of that nature. One day we may have to change over if axle shafts aren't ever reproduced. The old style ones will eventually all get used up.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:15 AM   #11
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

the modern axle change looks interesting to me. i just did a quick search and found nothing. can anyone point me to the info no doing this change? thanks, skip
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

I did mine the old fashion way, but that is a little difficult if you do not have access to the required machinery! There are other more modern approaches. Hot Rod Works is one http://www.hotrodworks.com/product-c...e-conversions/

These are poor copies, but it is an example of the method used. I used 9 inch Ford axles.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg banjo1.jpg (42.8 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg banjo2.jpg (52.3 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg banjo3.jpg (47.4 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg banjo4.jpg (16.3 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by JSeery; 03-21-2017 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:31 PM   #13
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

JSeery , what magazine , year & month did that article come from .... thanks flathead47
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cas3 View Post
heres a photo. on left, 32-34, note the snout for the drive shaft is a little shorter because of smaller pinion bearings. center, 35 up to ?, note the web coming off the rear pinion bearing is only a small triangle on each side, on right the later unit with rear bearing web now running about half way around the case
Thanks, so what is the 'later unit' year available to look for ?


JSeery:
BTW, I agree that changing out the original axles to 'modern' larger/stronger axles is THE way to go. But , we all do not have your knowledge/equipment to accomplish that improvement. Do you maintain the 5 on 51/2 bolt pattern or what ?

BTW there is an old buddy who did this kind / type of work on banjo rear ends, but quit due to heavy work and age..bummer, right before we became friends . He did that work and more 'tricks' to improve them. A talented machinist, indeed !

Last edited by hardtimes; 03-21-2017 at 01:39 PM. Reason: ..........
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cas3 View Post
heres a photo. on left, 32-34, note the snout for the drive shaft is a little shorter because of smaller pinion bearings. center, 35 up to ?, note the web coming off the rear pinion bearing is only a small triangle on each side, on right the later unit with rear bearing web now running about half way around the case
Thanks, nice comparison visual !
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtimes View Post
BTW, I agree that changing out the original axles to 'modern' larger/stronger axles is THE way to go. But , we all do not have your knowledge/equipment to accomplish that improvement. Do you maintain the 5 on 51/2 bolt pattern or what ?
That's why I made the comment in my original post. But there are places, like Hot Rod Works, that do this work. I used stock 9 inch Ford truck axles which I modified. I am running 5 1/2 bolt pattern all the way around.

Flathead47, I really have no idea. The early articles are a little hard to follow as some of the parts used are getting difficult to find. I used the general idea and designed my own. What is involved is locating a spider gear* that will work with the banjo gears and than cutting and splining an axle to fit it. The out board of the axle is cut off and the end piece from the axle downer housing welded on.

I'm hard headed and want to do everything on my own! So I tend to research things into oblivion and then engineer my own solution. It is the hard way and not often the cheapest solution!!! There are sources that will do the work for you or sell you the components to do it yourself.

If anyone is interested in attempting this modification I can post some more detailed information.

* Correction, it is the axle gear that mates with the spider gears!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Turning down Axle.jpg (60.5 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Splines.jpg (53.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Splining Axle 2.jpg (66.4 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg $_57.jpg (45.2 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg $_572.jpg (36.9 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 9inch ends.jpg (37.9 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg 20140227_134840.jpg (35.0 KB, 31 views)

Last edited by JSeery; 03-21-2017 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:49 PM   #17
hardtimes
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

Thanks for sharing info, and especially for taking the pictures to show you 'walk the talk' !
Think that I'd better research Hot rod works ...might make a mistake measuring, eh !

Is 'open' driveshaft absolutely necessary for this conversion or can torque tube be kept ?

Just remembered , I think that I have one of HRW cards from Pomona, where I met them, will look it up and talk with them.

Last edited by hardtimes; 03-21-2017 at 05:06 PM. Reason: ...........
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

The pinion side is not involved, open or closed driveshaft should be totally optional. What's going on is the center section is modified to except latter model axle gears. The new gear part is subsituted for the "gear" portion of an origional axle. Then it can except latter removal axles. The housing ends then must be modified to retain the new axles. I used housing ends that allowed the mounting of 9 inch Ford backing plates and brakes. But it can be setup to retain the original brake hardware. You should be able to use just about any axle and wheel stud setup as long as the splines match the new center gears. Thus the reason in my case to respline the axles.

Last edited by JSeery; 03-21-2017 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

hardtimes, i do not know when the big web came in to play. the one shown was a wide 42-48 type. perhaps someone else can fill us in on that. jseery, nice job on the axles. it seems you loose the spring mount in this process, so some 36 bones would be the way to go for the spring. so the 9" pickup axle has the correct gears to match the spider gears?
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: banjo rear Q...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cas3 View Post
hardtimes, i do not know when the big web came in to play. the one shown was a wide 42-48 type. perhaps someone else can fill us in on that. jseery, nice job on the axles. it seems you loose the spring mount in this process, so some 36 bones would be the way to go for the spring. so the 9" pickup axle has the correct gears to match the spider gears?
I welded on a spring mount similar to the 36 style. Ok, now your getting into details, no the 9 inch gears will not work, and this seems to be somewhat of a secret as to what will work! Took a while to solve that part!!! But I have the part number if anyone wants to attempt a modification on their own. There are so interesting issues that go along with this.
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