The Ford Barn

BrianBurkert · 10-05-2012, 12:15 PM

I asked a little about this before, but I have a more specific question.

A friend has an engine with low miles since rebuilt. Due to a crack between the valve seat and cylinder #3 we would like to bore and sleeve the cylinder. The crack is stopped on one end with a hardened valve seat. Someone had attemped to pin the crack by pinning next to the valve seat, but they did not catch the whole crack and it continued down the cylinder wall an inch or less.

The question is:

Can we have #3 bored to accept a sleeve, and then bore the sleeve 0.060" over to match the other cylinders.

Will the sleeve listed in Bratton's catalog work? It is listed as 3/32" wall thickness.

BrianBurkert · 10-05-2012, 12:49 PM

Will the sleeve wall be too thin after boring?

If I am thinking right:

Sleeve i.d. = 3.875" plus 3/32 thickness = 3.969" o.d.

3.875" + 0.060" over = 3.935" desired bore of cylinder.

3.969" o.d. - 3.935 bore = 0.034" wall thickness after boring

CarlG · 10-05-2012, 02:20 PM

As far as labor for boring, you are already half way there if you were to bore out all the holes and put everything back to "new". .034 seems like a pretty thin wall for a sleeve. JMHO

Flathead · 10-05-2012, 02:28 PM

Be sure you capture both ends of the crack. It could go past the seat insert and down into the port.

George Miller · 10-05-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianBurkert

Will the sleeve wall be too thin after boring?

If I am thinking right:

Sleeve i.d. = 3.875" plus 3/32 thickness = 3.969" o.d.

3.875" + 0.060" over = 3.935" desired bore of cylinder.

3.969" o.d. - 3.935 bore = 0.034" wall thickness after boring

.060 over is .030 per side so it would .060 wall. you are taking .030 off a .090 wall. No that is not to thin unless you have a big hole in the cylinder wall.

James Rogers · 10-05-2012, 02:45 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Brian, why not get a sleeve from melling that is a full 1/8" over. That way you can bore it as many times as the originals. The rule of thumb is, the sleeve can be bored 1/2 of it's thickness. What you need is a CSL 201 and have it fitted to the block. The cylinder will have to be bored to 4.123 to have a good tight fit. I always stop my bore on the last .125 about 1/8" from the bottom of the cylinder so the sleeve has something to sit on. I have seen many that were press fitted move with a little too much heat.

You can order the sleeves from summitt or from Bucks engine parts in SC 1-800-274-2825

BrianBurkert · 10-05-2012, 08:24 PM

Thanks guys. George corrected me on the thickness (I wasn't thinking right) and James gave the names and p/n's we need. Thanks to all. Will copy my friend so he can have the work done.

BrianBurkert · 10-05-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlG

As far as labor for boring, you are already half way there if you were to bore out all the holes and put everything back to "new". .034 seems like a pretty thin wall for a sleeve. JMHO

Carl- He wants to get the car back on the road with minimum effort and expense. Rebore would mean all new pistons, rings, refit rods, etc. Since the crack may rear its ugly head in the other direction, we don't want to invest too much time or money in this engine.

redmodelt · 10-05-2012, 10:43 PM

I would suggest taking the valve seat out if it has seats installed and pinning it so a new seat cuts into the pin, same with the sleeve. Chances are that the crack might extend down below the valve seat. That can be pinned but it's a bit more work. Aside from the cost of sleeves and install, you should not need to refit the rods and would only need pistons and rings and a valve seat. You would also need to refit the one valve.

10-05-2012, 12:15 PM	#1
BrianBurkert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fleetwood, PA Posts: 421	Engine repair I asked a little about this before, but I have a more specific question. A friend has an engine with low miles since rebuilt. Due to a crack between the valve seat and cylinder #3 we would like to bore and sleeve the cylinder. The crack is stopped on one end with a hardened valve seat. Someone had attemped to pin the crack by pinning next to the valve seat, but they did not catch the whole crack and it continued down the cylinder wall an inch or less. The question is: Can we have #3 bored to accept a sleeve, and then bore the sleeve 0.060" over to match the other cylinders. Will the sleeve listed in Bratton's catalog work? It is listed as 3/32" wall thickness.

10-05-2012, 12:49 PM	#2
BrianBurkert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fleetwood, PA Posts: 421	Re: Engine repair Will the sleeve wall be too thin after boring? If I am thinking right: Sleeve i.d. = 3.875" plus 3/32 thickness = 3.969" o.d. 3.875" + 0.060" over = 3.935" desired bore of cylinder. 3.969" o.d. - 3.935 bore = 0.034" wall thickness after boring

10-05-2012, 02:28 PM	#4
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,502	Re: Engine repair Be sure you capture both ends of the crack. It could go past the seat insert and down into the port.

10-05-2012, 02:45 PM	#6
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: Engine repair Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Brian, why not get a sleeve from melling that is a full 1/8" over. That way you can bore it as many times as the originals. The rule of thumb is, the sleeve can be bored 1/2 of it's thickness. What you need is a CSL 201 and have it fitted to the block. The cylinder will have to be bored to 4.123 to have a good tight fit. I always stop my bore on the last .125 about 1/8" from the bottom of the cylinder so the sleeve has something to sit on. I have seen many that were press fitted move with a little too much heat. You can order the sleeves from summitt or from Bucks engine parts in SC 1-800-274-2825 __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/

10-05-2012, 08:24 PM	#7
BrianBurkert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fleetwood, PA Posts: 421	Re: Engine repair Thanks guys. George corrected me on the thickness (I wasn't thinking right) and James gave the names and p/n's we need. Thanks to all. Will copy my friend so he can have the work done.

10-05-2012, 02:20 PM	#3
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,117	Re: Engine repair As far as labor for boring, you are already half way there if you were to bore out all the holes and put everything back to "new". .034 seems like a pretty thin wall for a sleeve. JMHO

10-05-2012, 10:43 PM	#9
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,346	Re: Engine repair I would suggest taking the valve seat out if it has seats installed and pinning it so a new seat cuts into the pin, same with the sleeve. Chances are that the crack might extend down below the valve seat. That can be pinned but it's a bit more work. Aside from the cost of sleeves and install, you should not need to refit the rods and would only need pistons and rings and a valve seat. You would also need to refit the one valve.