28 rear end

[jd87]

I have a 28 A with a flathead v8 60 in it. It was sitting since the 50's when my grandpa parked it. I got the engine running good and now working on the brakes. When I was working on the rear I noticed the axles had a lot of in and out float. Do I need to pull the rear end out and go thru it? How much is to much float? If i do need to rebuild it is there any online tutorials to see what I'll be getting into? I have never messed with this kind of rear end.

I was also wandering when people put a flathead 60 in a model A would the trans and rear end be stock? Or would he have taken the motor and trans from the 1940 and put in the 1928? He did all this work in the late 40's I believe if that helps.

[Russell in Tulsa]

Sorry I can't answer that question but welcome to the 'barn and I love your car.

[Bob C]

The Model A trans won't bolt to the 60 so he probably used the 60 trans
or one from a big V8. The link is to Tom Endy's rear end article.
http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...vised-2014.pdf.
Also we need more pictures of the car.

Bob

[jd87]

Thank you. So the 60 trans would mate up to the stock tube and driveline? I don't have any more pictures at the moment but maybe this weekend.

[pooch]

Yeh, great car, and great grandpa to build that .

Have you got any pics of him with car when he was young ?

[Joe K]

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Vast quantities of "in and out" could be spyder gears. Possibly also mis-match between pinion and ring gear - although you should be able to hear that issue.

Joe K

[George Miller]

Can.t answer your question because you have white walls and a white top.

Just kidding Nice car. Most use a 39 V8 transmission it will bolt up to your A rear end. The A rear end will handle the V8 well even 80 hp engine.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Vast quantities of "in and out" could be spyder gears. Possibly also mis-match between pinion and ring gear - although you should be able to hear that issue.

Joe K

Joe, I agree with you about the differential (Spider) gears however I am not so sure about the ring & pinion mis-match. What am I missing?? My thoughts are the Ring Gear is mounted onto the differential carrier housing which is set with preload from the carrier bearings on each side. The axles enter the differential carrier case thru the center of the bearings. The axles can also wear the inside of the differential housing in addition to the diff. gear wear, which add to the lateral motion of the axle shaft. Is that what you were thinking??

[1930artdeco]

JD, welcome and neat car. I can't answer the question but my first question is "how much in and out play is there"? If it is .001-.005 or something along those lines you may be able to tighten up the rear a bit. If it is .25 or something then you are looking at a rebuild or replace. I would like to see how he installed the power train.

Mike

[Patrick L.]

I'm kinda thinking that reddish colored thing on the running board might be the parking brake.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

The axles can also wear the inside of the differential housing in addition to the diff. gear wear, which add to the lateral motion of the axle shaft. Is that what you were thinking??

Not exactly. Although it is a good thought too. Maybe just plain wear of the pinion/ring? We set the mesh when setting up a rear end (and look for what - 0.010 to 0.015?) As it wears the free play increases - but worse the side to side increases according to the pressure angle of the gear (likely 14.5 but could be 20)

Well, maybe not. The two differential carrier bearings "locate" the carrier. At least until they're shot? You said that too I think.

Maybe the souped up coupe did a lot of dirt track: round and round and round and to the point where the spyders were worn out?

Joe K

[1931 flamingo]

Are the axle nuts tight??
Paul in CT

[jd87]

Thanks guys. I think I will be tearing into the rear end this weekend. I want to say its closer to .125-.187 in and out play. I am going to jack it up this weekend and I will check how much it is before tearing into it. With that much play what parts world need replacing besides bearings and the normal? Spiders? The reason I ask is because a friend is going to a old ford swap meet this weekend and I was going to have him look around.
And that brick was the parking brake! I can take more pictures this weekend.

[Joe K]

It probably would be cheaper to simply buy an entire axle. The last one I bought I paid $75, but that was about a decade ago. Now I see them at $100, or even a bit more if they have been in current use and are considered "tested."

Even at that you might have to put some money into it. You'll want to see Tom Endy's descriptive on rebuilding the Model A Rear Axle. See http://www.santaanitaas.org/technica...tech-articles/ for several rear end items which will interest you.

Joe K

[jd87]

So are the spiders part of the axle or removeable? Is that generally what causes excessive in and out float? Should i Just tell him to look out for some axles in decent shape at the swap?

[Joe K]

The three spyder gears are placed BETWEEN the two axle halves. You have to disassemble the differential/ring-gear carrier to get to them - and examine the wear of both axle halves and spyders.

To assure yourself of rebuilding it ABSOLUTELY correctly, you'll require some good shape "half axles" (between the punkin and the wheel hub) AND the spyder gears. I would buy good used axle halves from someone who knows what he is selling (think $) and buy new from a supplier on spyders.

Bearings are a must have for any major tear down. The two large cone bearings either side of the ring gear carrier are a bit pricey, but as you are rebuilding to best effect, and don't want to do it twice... Technically you will see if there is any excessive wear on the bearings when you check for pre-load and use the punkin gaskets to set this. Expect issue on one of the two bearings as the force resulting from the ring gear tends to brinnell the cone on that side.

I have heard of those who use "shims" behind bearing races or cones to achieve a set-up. For the model A it is technically not necessary - but there were service bulletin documented variations in the machine work of the punkin and trumpets requiring only different gaskets - you might want to keep this thought in mind if you get stumped on setup ~ and fully understand the mechanics of what you're trying to achieve. A shim can be used to fine tune a setup and yield a single layer of gasket between trumpet and punkin.

Best would be to try to score an entire axle. Then if not finding it a direct substitute possibility - say it makes noise or you find some similar issue - do a tear down of BOTH axles and select the best parts of both. Be aware of a possible change between them as I mentioned.

Take your time - keep your parts separate and marked - and take pictures.

And keep us informed. We all LOOOVE pix, of course.

And do read Tom Endy's article. We are blessed to have him do this for us.

Joe K

[Bulligen]

I have an A with a 60 in it as well, it was also done in the late 40s or early 50s. It has a 40 side shift trans and steering column with a 40 rear end.

[John Kuhnast]

If the rear spring is mounted behind the axle not on top you have a later rear. The parts do not interchange.Try to determine what you have before you buy parts which will not fit

[jd87]

Ok I messed around in the shop today and I was wrong about the play. It wasn't at bad as I thought. Passenger side has .014 in and out and driver side has .035 in and out. Now to my next question...would it be ok to drive it for a little while like this? I'm on a budget and tires and wiring is the last thing it would need money wise to drive it. So put money into the rear end or tires? Ill post some pics later on tonight when I go inside.

[jd87]

I had to make a spring spreader so I can make some new bushings for the hangars. They are past worn out. I think I am going to replace those bushings, re-wire it, and put tires on it and drive it for a few months until I can get into the rear end. Will I do any more damage to it from what I said in my previous post?

Judging by the pictures does it look like stock rear end and 39 tranny? Any guesses what year the 60 is?

And last question for now is where can I get one of those fans I see that mount on the generator?

Here are the pictures I said I would post...

[Joe K]

Looking like a 28-29 Rear (with forged ends on the radius rods.)

And they did the adaptation to hydraulic brakes.

Nice spring spreader - looks familiar.

Joe K

[RichPA]

You need to tie a rope to the brick so you can release the brake on the fly!