The Ford Barn

CarlG · 12-23-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OL JENNY

...you wonder why some Model A owners don't ask questions. Guys we are all dumb, we are just dumb in different areas...

The question had been asked and answered several times in this string, and as Purdy said, every couple weeks it comes up again.

No disrespect to any question asked, but it has been answered multiple times, in this string alone. It's as though some are asking for validation to their point of view, and if I don't agree with it, I can't give it. Simple as that.

FrankWest · 12-23-2014, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Why die ??????? Its just an old car, its not a Rolls Royce. Even if it made a faint noise, which none of the metal gears have for me, it sure as hell ain't the end of the world. As many have told you several times, the available fiber gears are weaker and mostly don't last very long if the car is driven much..Evidence has been shown here over and over. Its not often that a week goes by that we don't hear of a stripped fiber gear on this forum . If the important thing is that the car will run the rest of your life without stripping another cam gear, install a metal gear, preferably bronze. If you want a fiber gear go right ahead, its your car and like the rest of us you are on your own. What more can anybody say ???????

I should have said, I'm, dying Laughing because someone posted a picture of a man with his head in the ground, after someone asked are fiber gears ok?

these cars are only our big boy toys anyway, and we should never let them affect our health.

tbirdtbird · 12-23-2014, 05:36 PM

we can divide this up. Carl, wanna finish out this thread? I don't mind taking it the next time. Maybe Purdy would be willing to take it after me.

FrankWest · 12-23-2014, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Sure you can install the bronze cam gear without installing a new crank gear.If Dan doesn't want to sell just the cam gear, Snyders sells bronze and aluminum cam gears. I have installed just the bronze gear from Snyders without installing a new crank gear.

I can't find the bronze gear listing at synders? I found aluminum and fiber...

CarlG · 12-23-2014, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I can't find the bronze gear listing at synders? I found aluminum and fiber...

I got mine from Dan McEachern (510) 532-8228 (Californaia)

He's the guy that makes them -- very nice guy to deal with.

tbirdtbird · 12-23-2014, 07:30 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

he will sell the bronze separately. You need not buy a matched set if you don't want to

ericr · 12-23-2014, 08:01 PM

The Murray Fahnestock book claims that Model "A" did not use timing chains (which most other cars did, I think) because of the costs associated with producing a chain composed of many links, which would eventually need adjustment, versus a simple fiber gear.
It sound like many guys have legitimate problems with fiber though I wonder if this is simply because the quality is not like original.

tbirdtbird · 12-23-2014, 08:34 PM

Eric I think you are onto something.

In that era, engines that did use timing chains frequently used a type of chain known as a Morse silent chain (named after the manufacturer). I have worked on numerous motors that used these chains. They are rugged as can be, never need any adjustment, and are indeed as silent as can be. It is hard for me to understand to this day how they can be so silent, after looking at many of them. They are still available. Some of the old timers on here may remember them. My first exposure to them was on a 1911 Stafford car (the last such car in existence: I worked on car number 245 of 347 ever made). They are an engineering marvel. You will never break one. I just finished working on a '32 GMC 1.5 ton grain truck which has such a chain. We invited as many car buddies over as possible to take a gander; their eyes popped.

FrankWest · 12-24-2014, 08:08 AM

I wonder why some modern producer did not make a nylon gear. Should be quiet but maybe it would melt?

blgitn · 12-24-2014, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I wonder why some modern producer did not make a nylon gear. Should be quiet but maybe it would melt?

They make nylon timing gears for T's.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-24-2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I wonder why some modern producer did not make a nylon gear. Should be quiet but maybe it would melt?

GM's nylon coated cam sprockets wasn't a good idea. It wasn't if they would fall apart, but when. The one on my dad's 1970 Pontiac fell apart when he was 1000 miles from home.

George Miller · 12-24-2014, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

GM's nylon coated cam sprockets wasn't a good idea. It wasn't if they would fall apart, but when. The one on my dad's 1970 Pontiac fell apart when he was 1000 miles from home.

You are right I had forgot about those. But did change a few years ago.

Dan McEachern · 12-25-2014, 02:20 AM

Guys- I feel a little clarification is in order regarding replacing both gears at the same time. With regard to the noise issue- when a customer calls and wants to know if metal gears make noise, I tell them that properly made gears installed on correct center distances (correct backlash) do not make noise. An issue arises when someone wants to buy just the cam gear- I'm more than willing to sell them the part, but since I have no control over the condition, or the original quality of the mating gear, I can't make the statement that the gear set will run quietly. Would you mix ring and pinion gears in a rear end or replace just the ring gear with a new one and expect good results? Timing gears are no different- You may be fortunate enough to replace only the cam gear with good results, but the fellow who does not have good results is usually the one telling his friends that you should use fiber gears because all metal ones make noise, when the fact is the same meshing problems exist with a fiber gear, and the teeth are slowly disintegrating but you just don't hear it until its too late.
I hope this helps a little. Dan

DougVieyra · 12-25-2014, 02:53 AM

Thank you Dan. Yes, your explaination, did help clarify the issue.

Purdy Swoft · 12-25-2014, 02:05 PM

Its more important to replace both gears when a fiber cam gear is used or it will strip teeth quicker. Unmatched metal gears may make a faint noise in worse cases but won't strip teeth. A person is on their own and shouldn't blame the gear maker. For me it will be metal gears as long as I can get them. In most cases with my cars I will take the easy way and replace the cam gear unless the crank gear looks bad or the engine is out. In most cases this is probably what most do.

FrankWest · 12-25-2014, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Knowing Henry, it was a cost factor.

Mike

I would not be a good cost factor if the cars keep breaking down and everyone started buying chevys

12-23-2014, 05:36 PM	#43
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears we can divide this up. Carl, wanna finish out this thread? I don't mind taking it the next time. Maybe Purdy would be willing to take it after me. __________________ '31 180A

12-23-2014, 07:30 PM	#46
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) he will sell the bronze separately. You need not buy a matched set if you don't want to __________________ '31 180A

12-23-2014, 08:01 PM	#47
ericr Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,542	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears The Murray Fahnestock book claims that Model "A" did not use timing chains (which most other cars did, I think) because of the costs associated with producing a chain composed of many links, which would eventually need adjustment, versus a simple fiber gear. It sound like many guys have legitimate problems with fiber though I wonder if this is simply because the quality is not like original.

12-23-2014, 08:34 PM	#48
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears Eric I think you are onto something. In that era, engines that did use timing chains frequently used a type of chain known as a Morse silent chain (named after the manufacturer). I have worked on numerous motors that used these chains. They are rugged as can be, never need any adjustment, and are indeed as silent as can be. It is hard for me to understand to this day how they can be so silent, after looking at many of them. They are still available. Some of the old timers on here may remember them. My first exposure to them was on a 1911 Stafford car (the last such car in existence: I worked on car number 245 of 347 ever made). They are an engineering marvel. You will never break one. I just finished working on a '32 GMC 1.5 ton grain truck which has such a chain. We invited as many car buddies over as possible to take a gander; their eyes popped. __________________ '31 180A

12-24-2014, 08:08 AM	#49
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears I wonder why some modern producer did not make a nylon gear. Should be quiet but maybe it would melt?

12-25-2014, 02:20 AM	#53
Dan McEachern Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 206	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears Guys- I feel a little clarification is in order regarding replacing both gears at the same time. With regard to the noise issue- when a customer calls and wants to know if metal gears make noise, I tell them that properly made gears installed on correct center distances (correct backlash) do not make noise. An issue arises when someone wants to buy just the cam gear- I'm more than willing to sell them the part, but since I have no control over the condition, or the original quality of the mating gear, I can't make the statement that the gear set will run quietly. Would you mix ring and pinion gears in a rear end or replace just the ring gear with a new one and expect good results? Timing gears are no different- You may be fortunate enough to replace only the cam gear with good results, but the fellow who does not have good results is usually the one telling his friends that you should use fiber gears because all metal ones make noise, when the fact is the same meshing problems exist with a fiber gear, and the teeth are slowly disintegrating but you just don't hear it until its too late. I hope this helps a little. Dan

12-25-2014, 02:53 AM	#54
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears Thank you Dan. Yes, your explaination, did help clarify the issue.

12-25-2014, 02:05 PM	#55
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Why Fiber Timing Gears Its more important to replace both gears when a fiber cam gear is used or it will strip teeth quicker. Unmatched metal gears may make a faint noise in worse cases but won't strip teeth. A person is on their own and shouldn't blame the gear maker. For me it will be metal gears as long as I can get them. In most cases with my cars I will take the easy way and replace the cam gear unless the crank gear looks bad or the engine is out. In most cases this is probably what most do.