The Ford Barn

40cpe · 11-03-2016, 01:17 PM

I'm looking forward to those doughnuts, DD!

Lawrie · 11-03-2016, 03:46 PM

One thing I do when having this problem is to tap the stripped hole out to 12 mm.then make a stepped stud,12mm in the block, and above 7/16,this may not work if the hole is now bigger than the 12mm root diameter.
Lawrie

snappydon · 11-03-2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrie

One thing I do when having this problem is to tap the stripped hole out to 12 mm.then make a stepped stud,12mm in the block, and above 7/16,this may not work if the hole is now bigger than the 12mm root diameter.
Lawrie

What is this "mm" you speak of?!

It's kinda funny to see metric references on Flathead repair!

Old Henry wouldn't be having it...would he? Were any of the foreign built stuff metric?

This has been a VERY interesting thread to follow...I learned a lot. You guys are a wealth of knowledge...

V8COOPMAN · 11-03-2016, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappydon

What is this "mm" you speak of?!

It's kinda funny to see metric references on Flathead repair!

That "12mm" that Lawrie speaks of is because he lives where "mm"s are used a lot. DD

Today, 03:46 PM #42 Lawrie
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Qld, Australia

40cpe · 11-03-2016, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrie

One thing I do when having this problem is to tap the stripped hole out to 12 mm.then make a stepped stud,12mm in the block, and above 7/16,this may not work if the hole is now bigger than the 12mm root diameter.
Lawrie

Yes Lawrie, a helicoil had pulled out and the problem hole was already larger than even a 1/2" bolt hole.

Jack E/NJ · 11-03-2016, 05:34 PM

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True. But Lawrie's method reminds me of something if the helicoil repair hadn't been done in the first place. The drill size for tapping a 1/4-18 FPT happens to be exactly the same size as the originally-stripped hole, 7/16. So you should be able to cut a 1/4-18 MPT on one end of a 1/2 rod, then turn the rest of it down and cut a 7/16-20 on the other end to complete the repair stud.

Just thought of something else with your bigger stripped helicoil hole. You probably coulda tapped it for 3/8-18FPT and used a turned down 3/8-18MPT stud the same way. Maybe????

Jack E/NJ

Ol' Ron · 11-03-2016, 08:49 PM

Well we've solved one thing here, nobody is going to uz heli coils to fix head stud/bolt holes anymore.

Ronnie · 11-03-2016, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Well we've solved one thing here, nobody is going to uz heli coils to fix head stud/bolt holes anymore.

I wouldn't go that far as to condemn them they do work quite well,and the failure probably had a lot to do with the previous installer and the condition of the deck as well as the skill set of the torque values.

There 1000's of mil spec heli coils used on aircraft engines all the time.Just remember that when you fly next.It was good to see that a reasonably priced repair was arrived at to keep another flatty running and serving its owner well.Another happy ending.

R

scooder · 11-04-2016, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappydon

What is this "mm" you speak of?!

It's kinda funny to see metric references on Flathead repair!

Old Henry wouldn't be having it...would he? Were any of the foreign built stuff metric?

This has been a VERY interesting thread to follow...I learned a lot. You guys are a wealth of knowledge...

The pilot bearing in the middle of the flywheel is metric, believe it or not.
Martin.

snappydon · 11-04-2016, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooder

The pilot bearing in the middle of the flywheel is metric, believe it or not.
Martin.

I knew Lawrie was from down under...I just thought is was kinda funny to hear metric references on a vintage Ford.

I had no idea the pilot bearing or anything else was metric on them.

Jack E/NJ · 11-04-2016, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappydon

I knew Lawrie was from down under...I just thought is was kinda funny to hear metric references on a vintage Ford.
I had no idea the pilot bearing or anything else was metric on them.

Check the threads-in-the-heads again. 8^)

Jack E/NJ

Kurt in NJ · 11-04-2016, 08:37 AM

From what I saw---read the inside ---bottom of the hole has less thickness on one side like there is metal loss inside---deck less thick on one side of the hole, plus there is a crack from that hole---normal thresds push out because of their tapered design, I would think the repair should be using something that pulls the crack together to get maximum holding power without putting pressure on the crack---so look at "full torque inserts, they have a hooked thread that doesn't put outward pressure as tightened--
http://www.lns-sea.com/products-ft.htm#briefing

If the hole is large, off center they have blank inserts that will allow the original thread placement in the location required

40cpe · 11-04-2016, 09:09 AM

Kurt is correct about the thin deck on one side of the hole. I asked the machine shop to remove a broken head bolt and it came back with the helicoil. I couldn't tell that the bottom coils weren't attached in the deck. The "full torque inserts" might have been a better fix IF I had known about it at the time. Where were you when I needed you, Kurt?

STEVE O · 11-04-2016, 09:23 AM

Spark plug threads 14mm

snappydon · 11-04-2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEVE O

Spark plug threads 14mm

Good point!

I forgot about the 14mm and 18mm...

cmbrucew · 11-04-2016, 12:52 PM

I think the 203 bearing is used in the front of ford generators. 17MM X 40MM
Also has anyone else found Mazda light bulbs in their original Fords?
Bruce

Ronnie · 11-04-2016, 01:00 PM

Most bearings have been in metric sizes for eons. Nothing new there.

R

Tim Ayers · 11-04-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbrucew

I think the 203 bearing is used in the front of ford generators. 17MM X 40MM
Also has anyone else found Mazda light bulbs in their original Fords?
Bruce

Still Metric, but I believe the Mazda bulbs were French. The Mazda company who made bulbs made some really good electrical pieces such as vacuum tubes and such.

FlatheadTed · 11-04-2016, 02:00 PM

14 mm on the early steering boxes .If you cannot get a solid fix I think you will be relying on the studs each side of it to give most of the tension ,use the best gasket sealer you can find .to save bridge a block and if your not worried about looks you a metal plate

rotorwrench · 11-04-2016, 03:01 PM

There are a lot of places that the metric system crosses over in diameters. With threads, there is a difference. Very few if any metric threads cross over with unified threads mostly due to the different thread pitches. Aircraft spark plugs are all still unified type threads but automotive applications have been metric for a very long time.

11-03-2016, 01:17 PM	#41
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,032	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose I'm looking forward to those doughnuts, DD!

11-03-2016, 05:34 PM	#46
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,180	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) True. But Lawrie's method reminds me of something if the helicoil repair hadn't been done in the first place. The drill size for tapping a 1/4-18 FPT happens to be exactly the same size as the originally-stripped hole, 7/16. So you should be able to cut a 1/4-18 MPT on one end of a 1/2 rod, then turn the rest of it down and cut a 7/16-20 on the other end to complete the repair stud. Just thought of something else with your bigger stripped helicoil hole. You probably coulda tapped it for 3/8-18FPT and used a turned down 3/8-18MPT stud the same way. Maybe???? Jack E/NJ Last edited by Jack E/NJ; 11-03-2016 at 06:00 PM.

11-03-2016, 08:49 PM	#47
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,921	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose Well we've solved one thing here, nobody is going to uz heli coils to fix head stud/bolt holes anymore.

11-04-2016, 08:37 AM	#52
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,188	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose From what I saw---read the inside ---bottom of the hole has less thickness on one side like there is metal loss inside---deck less thick on one side of the hole, plus there is a crack from that hole---normal thresds push out because of their tapered design, I would think the repair should be using something that pulls the crack together to get maximum holding power without putting pressure on the crack---so look at "full torque inserts, they have a hooked thread that doesn't put outward pressure as tightened-- http://www.lns-sea.com/products-ft.htm#briefing If the hole is large, off center they have blank inserts that will allow the original thread placement in the location required

11-04-2016, 09:09 AM	#53
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,032	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose Kurt is correct about the thin deck on one side of the hole. I asked the machine shop to remove a broken head bolt and it came back with the helicoil. I couldn't tell that the bottom coils weren't attached in the deck. The "full torque inserts" might have been a better fix IF I had known about it at the time. Where were you when I needed you, Kurt?

11-03-2016, 03:46 PM	#42
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,245	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose One thing I do when having this problem is to tap the stripped hole out to 12 mm.then make a stepped stud,12mm in the block, and above 7/16,this may not work if the hole is now bigger than the 12mm root diameter. Lawrie

11-04-2016, 09:23 AM	#54
STEVE O Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: QUICKSBURG VA Posts: 720	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose Spark plug threads 14mm

11-04-2016, 12:52 PM	#56
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,069	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose I think the 203 bearing is used in the front of ford generators. 17MM X 40MM Also has anyone else found Mazda light bulbs in their original Fords? Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

11-04-2016, 01:00 PM	#57
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose Most bearings have been in metric sizes for eons. Nothing new there. R

11-04-2016, 02:00 PM	#59
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,709	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose 14 mm on the early steering boxes .If you cannot get a solid fix I think you will be relying on the studs each side of it to give most of the tension ,use the best gasket sealer you can find .to save bridge a block and if your not worried about looks you a metal plate __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters , Last edited by FlatheadTed; 11-04-2016 at 02:05 PM.

11-04-2016, 03:01 PM	#60
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,543	Re: helicoil at head bolt pulled loose There are a lot of places that the metric system crosses over in diameters. With threads, there is a difference. Very few if any metric threads cross over with unified threads mostly due to the different thread pitches. Aircraft spark plugs are all still unified type threads but automotive applications have been metric for a very long time.