The Ford Barn

mrtexas · 05-10-2010, 10:57 PM

You might check that the low speed adjustment is 3/4 turn open(Tilly carb instructions on my website). It is the large brass screw with a spring under it on the top half of the carb. There are 4 adjustments on a Tilly, idle speed, low speed jet, choke, and high speed jet(GAV).

From cold I open the GAV one turn on my Tilly(see Tilly instructions), retard the spark, turn the key on, hit the starter, pull the choke out and shut the choke 1-2 seconds later. Engine starts every time.

Try this, I bet yours will start right up.

"fuel kinda pours out of the carb where the filter would go.." means flooded to me from holding the choke open too long.

I think that your quote "When I went to look at it, it started right up everytime for the owner" means there is likely nothing wrong with your engine or carb and just a little something you are confused about how to start it.

I had similar confusion about how to start my A when I first got it. I hadn't read the Tilly instructions and didn't even know the carb I had wasn't original to the car. I didn't realize the GAV needs to be set the same every time for starting. I thought it was only the choke and pulled on it to start not paying attention to the fact I was twisting it as well. Pretty soon mine wouldn't start either. There is lots to learn about the humble Model A for a new owner.

I think I now know a little about Tillys. I have a current inventory of them of about 50: http://members.fortunecity.com/pjsauber/TillyCarb.htm

A Tilly is a very simple design for a carburetor although just as old as the Zenith that came with the A new. Ford sold the aluminum Tilly as a cheaper replacement for the cast iron Zenith.

RudyOnWheels · 05-12-2010, 07:56 PM

Well, after choking it the right way, it will EVENTUALLY start, it just takes alot longer than it should. My car seems to like being choked, as after that is when it fires and ALMOST starts..... Well, the old timer that was helping me set the timing, and checked out my distributor and all of its parts. He said it was advanced a bit much, but I know when it finally starts it runs good. It leaks oil pretty damn bad out of the rear main though, so I will have to address that.... He brought over a supposedly freshly rebuilt distributor, his extra hoping that would make it start easier. NOPE!!! Doesnt even fire now...... No Fire at the points.... He is 75 and got pooped out and went home for the day (yesterday). He will be back tomm to help me sort it out.... I dont think his supposed fresh distributor is quite right..... Oh well, at least I Know it will EVENTUALLY start with my crusty old distributor in it!!! I wish I could get at and reach more stuff, as i would just do what he told me to do so he wouldnt have to do it, but being in a wheelchair, it just isnt a reality. I do what I can, and am still learning alot. Thank you for all of your input.

James

Marco Tahtaras · 05-12-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

NOPE!!! Doesnt even fire now...... No Fire at the points....

He likely screwed the ignition switch connector in too far and grounded out the distributor at the lower bus bar. That is not too unusual. Backing it out a couple turns will likely restore the spark assuming the distributor doesn't have other problems.

RudyOnWheels · 05-12-2010, 08:13 PM

Thank You Marco!!! I will try that first thing tomorrow when he gets back!!! Sounds like that could be the problem..... I will report back.....

James

Special Coupe Frank · 05-12-2010, 08:45 PM

James,

I got my first A in January, and went through quite a learning curve about starting it.

I found out that they flood VERY easily from over-choking.

I thought I "knew what I was doing", since I grew-up with a Ford 9N tractor...

My '28 with a Zenith starts best ( cold ) with the gas adjusting valve open about 1 turn from "lightly-closed" . I usually open the hand-throttle until I just feel the foot-accelerator move under my foot and the apply the choke for the first two or three grunts of the starter, then release it.

Make sure your choke rod moves freely - it should spring-back to fully open as soon as you release the knob.

One day, I flooded the poor beast REALLY good... soaked the filter mesh of the Air-Maze with raw gas... had to remove the air-filter and crank it with the tank valve turned-off and the throttle wide-open until she finally cleared-out and began to sputter back to life.

If you have good hearing, you'll hear the carb start to "gargle" if you're at the threshold of over-choking.

Good suggestions from everyone else about double-checking points & condensor, looking for fat blue spark, coil polarity, etc.

Model A's have the POSITIVE battery terminal grounded, unlike our modern 12-volt cars.

As the others have said, these Fords definitely have individual personalities, once you get to know yours, you'll have fun with it !

Regards,

SC Frank

RudyOnWheels · 05-13-2010, 01:51 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I appreciate it Frank, and thats a beautiful coupe in your avatar!!!

Thank You,

James

RudyOnWheels · 05-15-2010, 12:03 AM

Timing was 90 degrees out.......I also believe there was a bad BRAND NEW condensor. Seems there is more than one hole in my timing gear.... Installed a new pin that is chamfered, works better. Fires up instantly!!! Now on to the exxon Valdeez oil leak.......

Thank you very much to all who responded!!!

James

Mike V. Florida · 05-15-2010, 01:04 AM

95% of fuel problems are electric.

RockHillWill · 05-15-2010, 05:57 AM

Hey Rudy, glad to se you here and in the Model A world. You will like most of the people here, most of the time, LOL. I was born in Brighton, lived in Howell and still have family in Gregory and Fowlerville. I get to Dearborn and Howel once or twice a year and still miss that part of the country.

Bruce Adams · 05-15-2010, 06:39 AM

We are dying to hear !
Did the "old timer" unscrew the can a bit to "unground" it, as recommended Wednesday? Did that permit spark?
Always check for points spark after screwing in the ignition switch connector "can".
How is it working now?

nostalgicford · 05-15-2010, 08:10 AM

You Kinda got to know your car and figure out what works best....I really believe your problem is simple...your choking it way to long and flooding it and possibly fouling the plugs....clean your plugs and when you try to start it choke it for one revolution then release the choke and it should fire....then adjust the mixture till it sounds good

Bobs29ModelA · 01-04-2012, 11:26 PM

I think no matter which way you cut it, every car has its own "personality", including what it takes to start it in a reasonable amount of cranking time. My Tillotson-carbed '31 (in the short time it actually ran, that is) absolutely wanted to be choked every single time... regardless of whether it was cold, or hot (even after running for a while, in very hot weather). However, it started so well during that time that it was already actually running before it had even cranked a couple of revolutions....

05-10-2010, 10:57 PM	#21
mrtexas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sugar Land, TX Posts: 4,397	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start You might check that the low speed adjustment is 3/4 turn open(Tilly carb instructions on my website). It is the large brass screw with a spring under it on the top half of the carb. There are 4 adjustments on a Tilly, idle speed, low speed jet, choke, and high speed jet(GAV). From cold I open the GAV one turn on my Tilly(see Tilly instructions), retard the spark, turn the key on, hit the starter, pull the choke out and shut the choke 1-2 seconds later. Engine starts every time. Try this, I bet yours will start right up. "fuel kinda pours out of the carb where the filter would go.." means flooded to me from holding the choke open too long. I think that your quote "When I went to look at it, it started right up everytime for the owner" means there is likely nothing wrong with your engine or carb and just a little something you are confused about how to start it. I had similar confusion about how to start my A when I first got it. I hadn't read the Tilly instructions and didn't even know the carb I had wasn't original to the car. I didn't realize the GAV needs to be set the same every time for starting. I thought it was only the choke and pulled on it to start not paying attention to the fact I was twisting it as well. Pretty soon mine wouldn't start either. There is lots to learn about the humble Model A for a new owner. I think I now know a little about Tillys. I have a current inventory of them of about 50: http://members.fortunecity.com/pjsauber/TillyCarb.htm A Tilly is a very simple design for a carburetor although just as old as the Zenith that came with the A new. Ford sold the aluminum Tilly as a cheaper replacement for the cast iron Zenith. Last edited by mrtexas; 05-10-2010 at 11:06 PM.

05-12-2010, 07:56 PM	#22
RudyOnWheels Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Howell, Mi Posts: 43	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start Well, after choking it the right way, it will EVENTUALLY start, it just takes alot longer than it should. My car seems to like being choked, as after that is when it fires and ALMOST starts..... Well, the old timer that was helping me set the timing, and checked out my distributor and all of its parts. He said it was advanced a bit much, but I know when it finally starts it runs good. It leaks oil pretty damn bad out of the rear main though, so I will have to address that.... He brought over a supposedly freshly rebuilt distributor, his extra hoping that would make it start easier. NOPE!!! Doesnt even fire now...... No Fire at the points.... He is 75 and got pooped out and went home for the day (yesterday). He will be back tomm to help me sort it out.... I dont think his supposed fresh distributor is quite right..... Oh well, at least I Know it will EVENTUALLY start with my crusty old distributor in it!!! I wish I could get at and reach more stuff, as i would just do what he told me to do so he wouldnt have to do it, but being in a wheelchair, it just isnt a reality. I do what I can, and am still learning alot. Thank you for all of your input. James

05-12-2010, 08:13 PM	#24
RudyOnWheels Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Howell, Mi Posts: 43	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start Thank You Marco!!! I will try that first thing tomorrow when he gets back!!! Sounds like that could be the problem..... I will report back..... James

05-12-2010, 08:45 PM	#25
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start James, I got my first A in January, and went through quite a learning curve about starting it. I found out that they flood VERY easily from over-choking. I thought I "knew what I was doing", since I grew-up with a Ford 9N tractor... My '28 with a Zenith starts best ( cold ) with the gas adjusting valve open about 1 turn from "lightly-closed" . I usually open the hand-throttle until I just feel the foot-accelerator move under my foot and the apply the choke for the first two or three grunts of the starter, then release it. Make sure your choke rod moves freely - it should spring-back to fully open as soon as you release the knob. One day, I flooded the poor beast REALLY good... soaked the filter mesh of the Air-Maze with raw gas... had to remove the air-filter and crank it with the tank valve turned-off and the throttle wide-open until she finally cleared-out and began to sputter back to life. If you have good hearing, you'll hear the carb start to "gargle" if you're at the threshold of over-choking. Good suggestions from everyone else about double-checking points & condensor, looking for fat blue spark, coil polarity, etc. Model A's have the POSITIVE battery terminal grounded, unlike our modern 12-volt cars. As the others have said, these Fords definitely have individual personalities, once you get to know yours, you'll have fun with it ! Regards, SC Frank

05-13-2010, 01:51 AM	#26
RudyOnWheels Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Howell, Mi Posts: 43	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I appreciate it Frank, and thats a beautiful coupe in your avatar!!! Thank You, James

05-15-2010, 12:03 AM	#27
RudyOnWheels Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Howell, Mi Posts: 43	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start Timing was 90 degrees out.......I also believe there was a bad BRAND NEW condensor. Seems there is more than one hole in my timing gear.... Installed a new pin that is chamfered, works better. Fires up instantly!!! Now on to the exxon Valdeez oil leak....... Thank you very much to all who responded!!! James

05-15-2010, 01:04 AM	#28
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start 95% of fuel problems are electric. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

05-15-2010, 05:57 AM	#29
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start Hey Rudy, glad to se you here and in the Model A world. You will like most of the people here, most of the time, LOL. I was born in Brighton, lived in Howell and still have family in Gregory and Fowlerville. I get to Dearborn and Howel once or twice a year and still miss that part of the country. __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!"

05-15-2010, 06:39 AM	#30
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start We are dying to hear ! Did the "old timer" unscrew the can a bit to "unground" it, as recommended Wednesday? Did that permit spark? Always check for points spark after screwing in the ignition switch connector "can". How is it working now?

05-15-2010, 08:10 AM	#31
nostalgicford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Claremore, Okla. Posts: 259	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start You Kinda got to know your car and figure out what works best....I really believe your problem is simple...your choking it way to long and flooding it and possibly fouling the plugs....clean your plugs and when you try to start it choke it for one revolution then release the choke and it should fire....then adjust the mixture till it sounds good

01-04-2012, 11:26 PM	#32
Bobs29ModelA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 124	Re: Stock Model A, always hard to start, now wont start I think no matter which way you cut it, every car has its own "personality", including what it takes to start it in a reasonable amount of cranking time. My Tillotson-carbed '31 (in the short time it actually ran, that is) absolutely wanted to be choked every single time... regardless of whether it was cold, or hot (even after running for a while, in very hot weather). However, it started so well during that time that it was already actually running before it had even cranked a couple of revolutions....