Float a motor

[denis4x4]

Did anybody ever stop and think that Henery was cheap and the stock motor mounts were designed to save pennies? Here's a guy that specified specific sizes on packing crates so that he could use them for floor boards.

Three A's with FAM mounts and nary a problem.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Did anybody ever stop and think that Henery was cheap and the stock motor mounts were designed to save pennies? Here's a guy that specified specific sizes on packing crates so that he could use them for floor boards.

Three A's with FAM mounts and nary a problem.

Oh! Dennis,
You're in DEEP POO POO now!!
I once called Ol' Henry a cheap old s**t, and I got jumped on as if I had offended GOD! Bill W.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Did anybody ever stop and think that Henery was cheap and the stock motor mounts were designed to save pennies? Here's a guy that specified specific sizes on packing crates so that he could use them for floor boards.

Three A's with FAM mounts and nary a problem.

You must be thinking of Jack Benny.

Henry never made floor boards out of shipping crates. BTW, I'm in Oshkosh at the national meet and I just saw an NOS hood and an NOS engine block with main caps, both still in their original wood shipping crates. They will be on display at the new Model A museum thanks to Tim Kelly.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by George Miller

What happens when you put the brakes on. Rear end wants to stop, car wants to keep going. What keeps the rear end coming.

When you hit bump with a wheel, what does it do to the engine. It wants to move side ways, and back or forward depends if it is the front or back wheel.

What happens when you get on the gas hard. Does the rear end want to push the engine forward.

I wonder why Ford used the original motor mounts.

Brakes are applied, torque tube wants to turn downward at the u-joint.

The wheel will move up then down and the shocks will settle it.

Two things, in low gear, torque tube wants to lift the trans. and engine wants to rotate ccw.

Because the A wasn't in production long enough for three different mounts and He just didn't like to see a motor moving in the engine compartment. They were changed the following year.

Caveat - This will not change any minds but, for those like Art that are undecided, I hope it helps to dispell some mythic logical thoughts.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Did anybody ever stop and think that Henery was cheap and the stock motor mounts were designed to save pennies? Here's a guy that specified specific sizes on packing crates so that he could use them for floor boards.

Three A's with FAM mounts and nary a problem.

For those of you that think Float a Motors are great consider this,
The stock rear mount is a steel box bolted directly to the flywheel housing,

Its point of contact is directly to the web of the frame rail (vertical portion of the frame rail) with bolts and a thin rubber pad. So the weight is pushing straight down on the web of the frame so no twisting motion on the frame rail.

With the Float a Motors the point of contact is 2 1/2 " inboard from the web of the frame rail on a bracket bolted to the web of the frame creating a lever 2 1/2" long . Now the weight of the engine and transmission pushing down on this 2 1/2" lever is going to cause some twist in the frame rail.
This twist is going to increase when bouncing down a rough road,Which is probably why they used the rear mount at the rear crossmember to control the downward movement of the transmission/engine.
And no positive control of fore and aft motion of the axles caused by acceleration and braking.
If you consider all of this you can see why Henry used that cheap little steel box for a motor mount which when bolted to the flywheel housing formed another crossmember midway between the front and center crossmembers and controled twist and fore and aft movement of the axles.
I'll take the stock mounts! Bill

[pat in Santa Cruz]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

I PROMISE, I PROMISE, I PROMISE, I won't "HAWK" Float-A- Motors again! Most folks never change their ways of doing stuff, ME included, up to a certain point. I always try to post helps that have been proven to be good advice or stuff that has worked for ME. Maybe I can still be a help to some that didn't grow up doodling with mechanical or electrical contraptions. Like, which is the "business" end of a screwdriver?? Apologies for being "testy," just waiting for Pat's imminent GLORIOUS HOMECOMING. bill w.

LOL Bill, hawk them as much as you like. An individual's decision is up to him, not you or me, after hearing all the evidence presented by folks with experiences, both positive and negative..

BTW, I do change my ways. Once upon a time I installed FOMs in one of my cars, in spite of warnings to the contrary. The decreased vibration was welcomed. Then I watched as the miles ticked by and the frame sank, the hood hung wrong and the door sticking got worse. When I restored the car and got the body off the frame, I could not believe how badly it was sagging and twisted. It was exactly what the veterans on Fordbarn and Ahooga said would happen. That's what changed my attitude about them.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

A lot of are gonna' sag anyhow, they're a flimsy old frame. We have a setup where we've straightened them on a complete driving car in as little as 22 minutes!! NEXT!! When we spot someones hood fit going astray, we just say, "Better get that bucket over to Chuck's for a quick frame tweek!" It almost NEVER happens on the passenger side.
Poor design?????? Yup! but we can deal with it. Bill W.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Did anybody ever stop and think that Henery was cheap and the stock motor mounts were designed to save pennies? Here's a guy that specified specific sizes on packing crates so that he could use them for floor boards.

Three A's with FAM mounts and nary a problem.

Yes he might have been cheap, but he was business man. If he saved a dollar a car how many million would that be.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by George Miller

Yes he might have been cheap, but he was business man. If he saved a dollar a car how many million would that be.

Thank you...you made my point!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by George Miller

Yes he might have been cheap, but he was business man. If he saved a dollar a car how many million would that be.

George,
I'm cheap too, how come I'm not RICH? I must be doing something wrong! I always say, "I can't afFORD that!" Bill Ford

[J Franklin]

Maybe $2.00 were saved by not having to place a third crossmember also.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Are we through discussing those rubber things? I just found 2 PLASTIC duck decoys in the curb junk pickup, they go well with my RUBBER chicken. Found a dandy pair of Sears overalls to complete my Model A costume.
Bill Incognito.

[J Franklin]

Stock configuration was engineered. All that is not stock is open for speculation, forever until the overall engineering proof is available.

[paulizor]

Admittedly, I'm a Junior Member and very new to the Barn but I've been around the block more times than I can count and spent more hours under a car than I care to admit. I love what you guys are doing here and I've gained a wealth of information from you on my newest project, 1930 closed cab pick up. I've been chasing my lack of braking power for the past 4 months since I bought the P/U. I've adjusted, arc'd, tweaked and replaced but no improvement. I've spent hours on this site chasing ideas and how-to's but I think I have it now. My old FAM's have allowed the back of the transmission to drop so low that the brake cross arm bottoms out on the drag link bolt at the torque tube. I pulled the floor boards and, no transmission mount. I have 1/4" frame sag on the driver's side but I figure the transmission has dropped at least 2". Never saw this condition reported on the forum. So, another order sent to Snyders for the improved FAMs, front motor mount and cross shaft bushings. And, thanks Guys for carrying on.

[31Abone]

Can I get an argument going how stupid Ford engineers were about design of some items on Model A'a. ? When I'm working on A's I cuss out old man Ford a lot ? is it just me ?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 31Abone

Can I get an argument going how stupid Ford engineers were about design of some items on Model A'a. ? When I'm working on A's I cuss out old man Ford a lot ? is it just me ?

Yeah, pretty much. "Stupid" is NOT the correct word, ...and the correct word is more like brilliant. My reason behind using that word is the Ford Model-A has proven through years of use, --and abuse that they had it right. Was there improvements along the way? Sure, --but are they necessary?? Definitely not!! What other US marque was able to sell an affordable vehicle that withstood the time the Model-A has?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by paulizor

So, another order sent to Snyders for the improved FAMs, front motor mount and cross shaft bushings. And, thanks Guys for carrying on.

Welcome to Fordbarn and congrats on your new purchase. Many of us here share the same sentiments about trips around the block and under our beloved A's, however I really wish you would have asked more questions regarding F-A-M mounts instead of buying into the idea of "improved". You still will have issues with braking when you use the F-A-M mounts, and for anything you gain, you will lose in efficiency somewhere else. I cannot help but think how 31Abone surely is speaking of a F-A-M Mount Engineers when he speaks of stupid designs & thoughts!!

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Welcome to Fordbarn and congrats on your new purchase. Many of us here share the same sentiments about trips around the block and under our beloved A's, however I really wish you would have asked more questions regarding F-A-M mounts instead of buying into the idea of "improved". You still will have issues with braking when you use the F-A-M mounts, and for anything you gain, you will lose in efficiency somewhere else. I cannot help but think how 31Abone surely is speaking of a F-A-M Mount Engineers when he speaks of stupid designs & thoughts!!

Thank you, Brent. The value and importance of the original engineering cannot be emphasized too often. Keep 'em stock and avoid a shotload of headaches.

[700rpm]

And another thing: Henry was not a cheap man. He hired the best engineers of the time and paid them well. He paid his workers twice the daily standard industry wage. He insisted on quality throughout the engineering, design, and construction of the Model A. He wanted to give good value for a modest cost to the common man, and he built that philosophy into the cars. And he didn't try to cheat the public good out of the taxes he owed by setting up shell companies offshore, like a lot of the greedy corporate bastards in this country today. He wasn't a saint, but anyone who thinks he was cheap either hasn't done their homework or is woefully uninformed.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I can't think of another car with the same quality and reliability for the price of a Model A.
There were other quilty cars, but most were two or three times the price.