Redoing my hydrostatic fuel gauge with new red liquid

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

I seem to remember reading several years ago that the original fluid was no longer available as it posed a cancer risk. I don't remember where I read it but I would handle fluid carefully just to be safe.

Charlie Stephens

Charlie -

Wasn't the '30s 'red' noxious too? Used by more than just Ford. Anybody die from it?

Years ago I spoke to a supplier of parts and the 'red'.

Upon my query, Isn't this red stuff deadly?

He replied, well, if you drink it, yeah!. . . that people have been handling this stuff for decades; he as well . . . adding "I handle and mix it, and I'm still here.

***

Now . . . how many other off-the-shelf products had gov't-sanctioned printed warnings throughout the decades.)

The producers and sellers complied w/the gov't, but probably didn't want to run anybody off, by including the Jolly Roger. . . . . . ?

[glennpm]

Nasty stuff, MSDS attached.

H302 Harmful if swallowed. H315 Causes skin irritation.
H319 H330 H412
Causes serious eye irritation. Fatal if inhaled. Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.

Precautionary statement(s) P260
Do not breathe dust/ fume/ gas/ mist/ vapours/ spray.
P273 P284 P305 + P351 + P338 P310
Avoid release to the environment. Wear respiratory protection. IF IN EYES: Rinse cautiously with water for several minutes. Remove contact lenses, if present and easy to do. Continue rinsing. Immediately call a POISON CENTER/doctor.

[V8-m]

Hello guys!
Somebody there with original 32 hydrostatic tank sending unit?
If so could i have measurments ?
I would like to replicate it exactly like original. It`s hard to get.
Not very interesting for street rod scene therefore many trown away.
I could make small run of senders for sale if some of you guys are interested.
Thank You

[jimTN]

I just did a 34 I have with a new tube assy and some red fluid that came with the car. It may be the original stuff because it sure had a strong chemical smell to it. Needless to say I wore gloves and washed carefully. My mistake was the gauge was not aligned right in the dash and when I tightened it with a 1/4 drive deep well and my fingers, pop went the face glass. Fortunately I had a couple of old gauges with good glass and replaced it. The tube assy I used came from Michael D I think and it sure made things easier. It had one small gaugeing wire in it. I filled the hex tube with an eyedropper until the gauge read a hair above the empty line. I also blew the new air line to the tank out with a bicycle pump. Hope to get the car off stands next week and see how well things work.

[JimG]

I'm still fiddling around with my gas gauge - trying to get it to operate correctly. With some help from deuce lover, I rebuilt the whole gauge last summer. Since then, however I have had the problem that whenever the fill my tank, and air bubble comes up and blows the red liquid out of the gauge. I have tried setting the liquid level really low in the gauge, like barely visible when disconnected, but it still happens. So I decided the trouble must be in the tank unit. I removed the tank unit yesterday. It was actually fairly easy to do. I was avoiding it because I couldn't even find the access hatch in the floor. Turns out the carpet that seemed to be glued to the floor was covering it. You also needed to pull the top of the back seat out to access it. Just held in with one screw. Upon removing the unit, it looked OK was had a lot of black buildup on it. All the little cups seemed to be OK. I had read that sometimes those have cracks that cause issues. My wife has a small wire brush that looks like a toothbrush for cleaning her rainbow vacuum cleaner. It seemed like the perfect tool, along with mineral spirits. The only possible issues I found were the vent air line that goes to the bottom of the device seemed to be rather kinked at the top. Worked on this with a needle nose pliers to get it less kinked. I found some area with solder on the tubes. Not sure if those were fixes or just part of the original manufacture. I poked a small brass wire down all the really small tubes and used a small bottle brush on the larger ones. I also shot some compressed air down all the tubes to make sure they were open. Once I did this on the vent tube on the top, I noticed a vent hole on the bottom of the whole assembly. I had not noticed this before - thinking maybe it was plugged. It certainly was very black to start with. I reassembled the whole thing and then added new red fluid to the gauge, up to the empty portion when disconnected. I went for a short test drive with about 3-4 gallons of gas in the tank. The gauge went up to about 1/2 during this drive, so it was reading high. I came home and removed some of the red liquid, getting it be be just visible in the bottom of the gauge when disconnected. Then I went to the gas station and filled the tank right up to the filler neck- the big test. The gauge showed completely full but didn't blow. However, the minute I left the gas station, I saw an air bubble blow the red fluid out of the gauge. Anyone have an idea on what to do next? The gauge has the original approximately 1/8" brass wire in it. Should I take that out and try a smaller diameter wire? The gauge has been thoroughly cleaned inside & out I would appreciate any suggestions anyone has. Here are photos of the before and after on the tank unit.

[Terry,OH]

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Appears the tank vent tube (end is closest to the top of the sender mounting plate) is bent and may be crimped so it does not allow pressure or vacuum in the tank above the fuel level to vent to atmosphere. Pressure in the tank could force the red fluid in the gauge to come out the top of the glass tube. The small tubes from the cups have to be open for the gauge to read correctly with high levels of fuel in the tank. Your upper cup tube may be blocked. The vent tube can be unsoldered from the top mounting plate and worked on to open the tube at the mounting plate end if necessary.

[glennpm]

As Terry says, either the tank vent tube is completely crimped closed or hole B in the bottom bell is not open. Is the ferrule at the gas gauge unit soldered as it should be?


These are pictures of a spare unit I have. I've also attached the Ford service bulletin.











Glenn


PS Paragraphs are helpful :-)

[Tim Ayers]

Glenn:

Thank you so much for posting this. I'll be fixing one on my dad's tudor sedan shortly.

[glennpm]

Glad to help Tim!

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Glenn:

Thank you so much for posting this. I'll be fixing one on my dad's tudor sedan shortly.

Glenn
X2 as I have on for my 33 I want to clean and fix for future resto/install and I also "May" need to do the one on my 32 as well....SO thank you X 2 for posting this.

[glennpm]

Also look for cracks in the cups. Solder them closed.

Glenn

[JimG]

Thanks Glenn,

Yes, my tank vent tube is definitely squashed flat at the end. It appeared like it was supposed to be that way on purpose like the other end of the same tube in the tank, but I didn't realize what the function was. I will open this up. I also didn't notice the tank vent hole and whether it was open or not, as it seemed meaningless with a squashed tank vent tube on each end. I poked a thin brass wire down the upper cup small tube, so I think that is open, but will check again when I take it out again. The two vent tubes currently go under the floor - I think I may try to bend these so they terminate in the area where the access port is. Maybe they got squashed under the floor when the the car goes over bumps. My car has been lowered in the past. The tank vent was squashed so thoroughly it looked like it was supposed to be like that.

[JimG]

I took the tank unit back out tonight. The crimped tank vent did have a hole in it, as did the other end that was in the tank. I suppose this was to limit the size of the vent pipe and possibly minimize stuff getting into the tank. I decided to leave it that way rather than cutting off the crimped end. I ran wires through all the pipes again to make sure they were clear. I bent the two vent tubes to have them end up inside the access door area. Managed to kink the tank vent pipe and cause a small crack when I straightened it back to round, so I soldered that up even though it is a vent pipe. I shot compressed air down all the pipes and verified that they were all open. Here are a couple of new pictures of the vent pipe. Is there anything more I should try doing before I put the unit back in the tank?

[glennpm]

Sounds good. Check the cups for cracks carefully.
I’d probably cut the crimp off the vent pipe.

Glenn

[glennpm]

On second thought don’t cut it off. I vaguely remember that the one in my tank has the crimped end and hole.

[Terry,OH]

Yes the outside side of the vent tube is pressed closed with just the small hole, on the side of the vent tube for venting.

[glennpm]

Thanks Terry

[JimG]

The crimped end of the tank vent tube with the small hole looked original to me, so I left it that way.

[JimG]

I went for 125 mile test drive to try put my gas gauge after redoing both the tank unit and the gauge. I started with a full tank, and thoroughly cleaned the tank unit poking wires down all the tubes and blowing them out with compressed air. Everything was open, including all the vent holes. Then I added red liquid to the previously cleaned gauge - only up to the point where I could just see the liquid in the gauge - not all the way up to empty. I think hooked the air line up to the gauge and went for the test drive. The gauge seemed to work correctly - It was above full when I started and was reading empty when I finished. It had been 156 miles since the previous gas refill. Then I went for the big test - filling the tank at the gas station. Before I went I checked the gas level in the tank with a stick. It showed about 1.5 inches of gas. It is at a slant going in the filler neck, so there was maybe 1" of gas in the tank. I filled the tank part way up the filler neck. I added 10 gallons of gas. The gauge went all the way past full. Then, the minute I pulled away from the gas station I saw an air bubble blow the red liquid out of the gauge - same problem I was having before I started working on the tank unit. At this point, it seems I have to refill the red liquid in the gauge every time I fill the gas tank. I'm not sure what to try next. Am I filling the tank too full? It is supposed to be an 11 gallon tank. It has d about 1" of gas in it when I started, which must be more than a gallon. I added 10 gallons of gas. The only other variable is the adjusting rod in the gauge. I have the original one that it came with in there. It is about 1/8" diameter brass rod. Should I try some other size rod? The tank Unit and gauge are nice and clean and seem to be functioning well until I fill the tank. I was thinking of trying to fill the tank less next time and see if it still blows the gauge. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do next?

[glennpm]

Did you solder the air line ferrules?
Did you purge the air line per the Ford instructions?