The Ford Barn

Ross F-1 · 04-02-2021, 02:52 PM

There were Merc trucks in Canada that came with the 255. I had understood it was only '52's, but possible that also in '51. Only in M5 and M6 "big" trucks.

tubman · 04-02-2021, 05:31 PM

After finding that the truck is an M6, I am revising my bet. (I originally thought it was a pickup.)

Beater · 04-02-2021, 06:11 PM

hard to say what to do with it. it sits and does nothing

Ross F-1 · 04-07-2021, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beater

hard to say what to do with it. it sits and does nothing

That's a '52 hood on the truck, the hood trim also appears to be '52. Can you post the serial number?

Beater · 04-07-2021, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

That's a '52 hood on the truck, the hood trim also appears to be '52. Can you post the serial number?

could be its registered as a 51

Phil Gillespie · 04-02-2021, 07:28 PM

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Does it follow that these engines with the !CM heads will probably have a 1CM cam fitted?
Phil NZ

bobH · 04-02-2021, 09:09 PM

Back to the original question... merc 4-in? Since you say you run it up, that means it's not stuck. So, pull a plug, and measure the stroke. I think it might have been Ron that posted long ago, regarding using a large zip tie (or other flexible 'something', like a cable.) I'll let others elaborate. Should be able to tell if it's 3.75 or 4.00

GB SISSON · 04-02-2021, 11:19 PM

Not a betting man, but I'm hoping the zip tie says it's a 255. That truck that it's in is already a hotrod. Put a license plate on it (or not) and run it into town on a Saturday night. What could possibly go wrong?

Holeshot · 04-05-2021, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Not a betting man, but I'm hoping the zip tie says it's a 255. That truck that it's in is already a hotrod. Put a license plate on it (or not) and run it into town on a Saturday night. What could possibly go wrong?

And Nitrous, don't forget the Nitrous.

deuce5wndw · 04-03-2021, 07:37 AM

Put a ramp bed on it and haul your hot rod!

rotorwrench · 04-03-2021, 07:52 AM

I don't think an accurate measure can be taken with the heads on. The tie strap is generally used to find TDC on #1 cylinder. The crankshaft counterweight measurement across the cheek is a good way other wise pull a head and measure from TDC to BDC.

The F6 we had back in the day had a 239 CID engine but it wasn't made in Canada either. The F7 & F8 Big Jobs all either had the Lincoln 337 till 1952 then they had the 279 CID or 317 CID big Y-blocks in F7/F8 or F700/F800 respectively till 1956.

Ford of Canada always did things differently so the larger F5 & F6 Ford trucks may have also had the 255 available to them. This is not common in the US. All the F1 through F6 Ford trucks I've worked on had 239 CID engines with 8RT heads.

Beater · 04-03-2021, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I don't think an accurate measure can be taken with the heads on. The tie strap is generally used to find TDC on #1 cylinder. The crankshaft counterweight measurement across the cheek is a good way other wise pull a head and measure from TDC to BDC.

The F6 we had back in the day had a 239 CID engine but it wasn't made in Canada either. The F7 & F8 Big Jobs all either had the Lincoln 337 till 1952 then they had the 279 CID or 317 CID big Y-blocks in F7/F8 or F700/F800 respectively till 1956.

Ford of Canada always did things differently so the larger F5 & F6 Ford trucks may have also had the 255 available to them. This is not common in the US. All the F1 through F6 Ford trucks I've worked on had 239 CID engines with 8RT heads.

yes dont forget we are talking about M6 not F6 things happened different at ford of canada allright

tubman · 04-03-2021, 10:11 AM

Since this is said to be an original truck with an untouched engine, the combination of 1CM heads and a three-bolt carburetor has always bothered me. How about this scenario? The trucks had lower compression heads (8RT) than the cars (8BA). Maybe they ran out of 8RT heads and substituted 1CM units. The concurrent year Mercury's had a larger chamber because of the longer stroke. Everything turns out as it should, and the line keeps running.

Unfortunately, that would make it a 239.

I think you going to have to measure it to satisfy all of the inquiring minds out there.

Will D · 04-03-2021, 10:23 AM

Can you see any casting marks on the block? Like "C1BA"...if so, good chance it has a 4" crank.

Beater · 04-03-2021, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Since this is said to be an original truck with an untouched engine, the combination of 1CM heads and a three-bolt carburetor has always bothered me. How about this scenario? The trucks had lower compression heads (8RT) than the cars (8BA). Maybe they ran out of 8RT heads and substituted 1CM units. The concurrent year Mercury's had a larger chamber because of the longer stroke. Everything turns out as it should, and the line keeps running.

Unfortunately, that would make it a 239.

I think you going to have to measure it to satisfy all of the inquiring minds out there.

i live in the land of mercury trucks. you are the first one ive ever heard say that the trucks didnt come with the 3 bolt 97. i have about 400 trucks lined up, and there is exactly 1 truck in the yard, mercury or ford, that doesnt have the 3 bolt carb on it

5851a · 04-03-2021, 11:10 AM

A friends parents bought a new 52 F-2, he was still using it in the 70's and I ask him about the Mercury heads. He said they were on it when it was new and they were to lower compression for trucks. But it was a USA build.

Newc · 04-03-2021, 05:54 PM

Wow all those trucks! Not only was the 255 optional, but the M series 6 cyl 254" was in the mix. Newc

rotorwrench · 04-03-2021, 09:57 PM

As far as I know (which I will admit is limited), the Canadian trucks came from the same plant whether they were Ford or Mercury at Walkerville at least till the Oakville plant was built later.

I think what Tubman was trying to get across is that Mercury engines generally used the 4-stud Holley 885 type carb so they had a different manifold and air filter. Ford US didn't put a 3-stud model 94 on a Mercury engine for the 8BA era. They generally always used the Holley 885 to the best of my knowledge. I can't say about Canada for any certainty but it does make a person think about what they were doing there.

Mercury heads would have been comparable to truck heads for compression but they aren't the same. They are close but not the same. Trucks pulling heavy loads had to have lower compression and gearing for the engine to survive. Mercury heads were not as low a compression as truck heads but not far from it. They lowered the compression due to the increase in cubic inch displacement to keep the overall compression about the same as the 239 CID engines. This would lower the possibility of detonation under extreme loads. This is why I question the use of 1CM heads or any Mercury heads on a truck for that matter.

Fortunateson · 04-03-2021, 10:01 PM

I have a '50 C8BA block that had the C8CM heads on both sides, a four bolt intake, and a Merc crank and had never been bored.
My best guess is that they were short a proper Merc block and just put all the Merc guts in to satisfy the Merc it was to be matched to as the basic block was used for both Ford and Mercs. The block came out of a Merc.

So who knows for sure what happened on the assembly line back in the day...

mfirth · 04-04-2021, 06:25 AM

The 8BA in my 52 Vic had Merc heads & cam. It ran quite well . When i rebuilt it, found out it had domed pistons. I think those pistons may have helped improve performance...?

04-02-2021, 05:31 PM	#2
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,629	Re: 1cm After finding that the truck is an M6, I am revising my bet. (I originally thought it was a pickup.)

04-02-2021, 06:11 PM	#3
Beater Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Southern Alberta Posts: 582	Re: 1cm hard to say what to do with it. it sits and does nothing

04-02-2021, 07:28 PM	#6
Phil Gillespie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Christchurch New Zealand Posts: 1,640	Re: 1cm Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Does it follow that these engines with the !CM heads will probably have a 1CM cam fitted? Phil NZ

04-02-2021, 09:09 PM	#7
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,414	Re: 1cm Back to the original question... merc 4-in? Since you say you run it up, that means it's not stuck. So, pull a plug, and measure the stroke. I think it might have been Ron that posted long ago, regarding using a large zip tie (or other flexible 'something', like a cable.) I'll let others elaborate. Should be able to tell if it's 3.75 or 4.00

04-02-2021, 11:19 PM	#8
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: 1cm Not a betting man, but I'm hoping the zip tie says it's a 255. That truck that it's in is already a hotrod. Put a license plate on it (or not) and run it into town on a Saturday night. What could possibly go wrong? __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

04-03-2021, 07:37 AM	#10
deuce5wndw Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Liberty, KY Posts: 987	Re: 1cm Put a ramp bed on it and haul your hot rod!

04-03-2021, 07:52 AM	#11
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,409	Re: 1cm I don't think an accurate measure can be taken with the heads on. The tie strap is generally used to find TDC on #1 cylinder. The crankshaft counterweight measurement across the cheek is a good way other wise pull a head and measure from TDC to BDC. The F6 we had back in the day had a 239 CID engine but it wasn't made in Canada either. The F7 & F8 Big Jobs all either had the Lincoln 337 till 1952 then they had the 279 CID or 317 CID big Y-blocks in F7/F8 or F700/F800 respectively till 1956. Ford of Canada always did things differently so the larger F5 & F6 Ford trucks may have also had the 255 available to them. This is not common in the US. All the F1 through F6 Ford trucks I've worked on had 239 CID engines with 8RT heads.

04-03-2021, 10:11 AM	#13
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,629	Re: 1cm Since this is said to be an original truck with an untouched engine, the combination of 1CM heads and a three-bolt carburetor has always bothered me. How about this scenario? The trucks had lower compression heads (8RT) than the cars (8BA). Maybe they ran out of 8RT heads and substituted 1CM units. The concurrent year Mercury's had a larger chamber because of the longer stroke. Everything turns out as it should, and the line keeps running. Unfortunately, that would make it a 239. I think you going to have to measure it to satisfy all of the inquiring minds out there.

04-03-2021, 10:23 AM	#14
Will D Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: BC Canada Posts: 573	Re: 1cm Can you see any casting marks on the block? Like "C1BA"...if so, good chance it has a 4" crank. __________________ Sometimes, ingenuity gets in the way of sense and sanity.

04-03-2021, 11:10 AM	#16
5851a Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 1,767	Re: 1cm A friends parents bought a new 52 F-2, he was still using it in the 70's and I ask him about the Mercury heads. He said they were on it when it was new and they were to lower compression for trucks. But it was a USA build.

04-03-2021, 05:54 PM	#17
Newc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,908	Re: 1cm Wow all those trucks! Not only was the 255 optional, but the M series 6 cyl 254" was in the mix. Newc

04-03-2021, 09:57 PM	#18
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,409	Re: 1cm As far as I know (which I will admit is limited), the Canadian trucks came from the same plant whether they were Ford or Mercury at Walkerville at least till the Oakville plant was built later. I think what Tubman was trying to get across is that Mercury engines generally used the 4-stud Holley 885 type carb so they had a different manifold and air filter. Ford US didn't put a 3-stud model 94 on a Mercury engine for the 8BA era. They generally always used the Holley 885 to the best of my knowledge. I can't say about Canada for any certainty but it does make a person think about what they were doing there. Mercury heads would have been comparable to truck heads for compression but they aren't the same. They are close but not the same. Trucks pulling heavy loads had to have lower compression and gearing for the engine to survive. Mercury heads were not as low a compression as truck heads but not far from it. They lowered the compression due to the increase in cubic inch displacement to keep the overall compression about the same as the 239 CID engines. This would lower the possibility of detonation under extreme loads. This is why I question the use of 1CM heads or any Mercury heads on a truck for that matter.

04-03-2021, 10:01 PM	#19
Fortunateson Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 523	Re: 1cm I have a '50 C8BA block that had the C8CM heads on both sides, a four bolt intake, and a Merc crank and had never been bored. My best guess is that they were short a proper Merc block and just put all the Merc guts in to satisfy the Merc it was to be matched to as the basic block was used for both Ford and Mercs. The block came out of a Merc. So who knows for sure what happened on the assembly line back in the day...

04-04-2021, 06:25 AM	#20
mfirth Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: ohio Posts: 1,103	Re: 1cm The 8BA in my 52 Vic had Merc heads & cam. It ran quite well . When i rebuilt it, found out it had domed pistons. I think those pistons may have helped improve performance...?