Difficulties installing & torquing rear drum - Help!

[Bluebell]

First line in post #4, I mentioned a washer ...... Now that I have looked in a parts book, I will say again, "You need a washer" I think it is a fairly thick one.

Will a new nut (any one the right size) run on the thread easily?

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by psogden

Am attaching a photo of the end of the axle where the threads on the 5/8 -18 failed at around 160 foot-pounds. I have removed the 5/8” washer to expose the edge of the drum. As you can see, (bit a bullet) there are still good threads on the axle. This would appear to confirm that the bolt was not a Grade 8 quality or it would not have failed. I do notice that the end of the key way on the axle is showing (right side of axle). Should the key way be exposed? Is it possible that the drum is on too far? If I understand the theory of the drum to axle fit, seemingly it would be impossible to torque the drum on too far. Am I correct or--??

The keyway is normally cut into the threads some on these axles as a result of the cutter diameter they used, and the need to cut the keyway bottom flat enough in the area where the key normally fits.

After viewing this picture, which I had asked psogden to post here to get as many comments as possible on the condition of these threads, I believe these threads do have a good chance of surviving the specified torque IF an original Ford axle nut of the proper material and hardness is used. I had also suggested that the thick washer be removed when taking this picture so we could see the condition of the full thread length from the end of the drum snout to the tip/end of the axle.
Any additional comments by members here on thread condition, as seen in this picture, would be welcome.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Bluebell

First line in post #4, I mentioned a washer ...... Now that I have looked in a parts book, I will say again, "You need a washer" I think it is a fairly thick one.

Will a new nut (any one the right size) run on the thread easily?

The washer is part number 351505 and it 5/32" thick.

Bob

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The washer is part number 351505 and it 5/32" thick.

Bob

The washer is not in question here. He removed it temporarily at my request so that all of the axle threads would be exposed for the picture posted in post #20.

Everyone, please go back to post #20 and take a look at those threads, and comment on what you think of their condition. Are they likely to withstand the torque spec if an original Ford axle nut, with good threads, and the correct hardness is used? Your opinion of axle threads is what we are seeking here.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone, JM I downloaded and enlarged the photo but I just couldn't see if the threads looked right, so I didn't comment. They looked at minimum, dirty, but the photo started to break down upon elnargement.

psodgen, I'd vote for more photos from lots of angles. Try Macro mode. Clean it first, maybe light wire brushing by hand.

[ford38v8]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I agree with Jeff, can't be sure of the condition due to the presence of foreign material in the threads. Do not use a die to rethread, however. Pick out the sheared threads left from the nut, and wire brush to clean up.

BTW, I hope it wasn't you who used a BFH to remove the drum?

[psogden]

Always use a KR Wilson drum puller. Will clean out threads further & post another picture. Appreciate all the replies.

[psogden]

In reply to Bluebell, I do have the washer & pulled off as suggested by John before taking picture. I ran a brand new 5/8 -18 nut from NAPA on the axle & it went in about 1/2 way before tightening some so I didn't force. I do have one of those Bluepoint "thread fixer" tools but am reluctant to use it.

[Mart]

A new, or good condition used nut should run down the full length of the threads freely. If the nut stops, it means the threads are either damaged or filled with crud. Bits of old thread or dirt. Give it a good wire brushing by hand and inspect it carefully using a magnifying glass if necessary. If I were you I'd buy a new nut if they are available locally and cut it in half. I'd put the nut halves around the base of the threads and clamp it on. I would then lubricate it and wind it off the thread while clamped tightly together. If there are any burrs on the axle this ought to straighten them up. Ok I know the axle is good quality and semi hard, but for the cost of the nut I'd give it a go regardless.

Mart.

[Capt Kirk]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

I agree with Jeff, can't be sure of the condition due to the presence of foreign material in the threads. Do not use a die to rethread, however. Pick out the sheared threads left from the nut, and wire brush to clean up.

BTW, I hope it wasn't you who used a BFH to remove the drum?

I noticed the BFH signs too...I suspect the person burned some calories on that brake job!

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. psogden, A perfect photo would show the threads to the level of detail in the drawing.

[Capt Kirk]

Maybe I'm missing something in this thread? Why not clean the threads really well, lubricate and run the appropriate die down the threads slowly, back and forth, until it
threads freely by hand. Get the correct axle nut and washer and tighten to the specified torque? If it holds, it holds...if it doesn't the it's axle time. The drum appears to have survived a violent history...the axle may have been a recipient of some of that violence as well. You know...how you use to screw the nut on to protect the threads and beat the shaft with a BFH. Am I missing something?

[34fordy]

I have a set of Little Giant dies which are adjustable--I would back the dies off considerably and thread the assembly onto the axle--Then I would tighten the dies to the axle and clean the threads from inside outward--Possibly in 2 or 3 steps--This way the threads would be true--Then use a nut that you know is good--If you can not get to torque spec without failure it would be time for axle replacement I believe--Don

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Capt Kirk

Maybe I'm missing something in this thread? Why not clean the threads really well, lubricate and run the appropriate die down the threads slowly, back and forth, until it
threads freely by hand. Get the correct axle nut and washer and tighten to the specified torque? If it holds, it holds...if it doesn't the it's axle time. The drum appears to have survived a violent history...the axle may have been a recipient of some of that violence as well. You know...how you use to screw the nut on to protect the threads and beat the shaft with a BFH. Am I missing something?

Good question. The reason you don't want to run a cutting die on it is because it has already been cut once, and to cut it again would remove material that should rightfully be straightened out, not cut out. I'd rather ruin a couple of new nuts straightening out the axle threads than to recut those threads. A previous post advised to split a new nut, assemble on the axle, clamp it tight, and run it back off. this is good, and there is also a tool available to do the same thing.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by psogden

Am attaching a photo of the end of the axle where the threads on the 5/8 -18 failed at around 160 foot-pounds. I have removed the 5/8” washer to expose the edge of the drum. As you can see, (bit a bullet) there are still good threads on the axle. This would appear to confirm that the bolt was not a Grade 8 quality or it would not have failed. I do notice that the end of the key way on the axle is showing (right side of axle). Should the key way be exposed? Is it possible that the drum is on too far? If I understand the theory of the drum to axle fit, seemingly it would be impossible to torque the drum on too far. Am I correct or--??

Here are some closeup pictures of threads on several different axels that I plan to use in the next '35 rears I'll be rebuilding. I took these shots to show the profile of what I consider to be good threads on some good used axels. If you click on these thumbnail photos to enlarge them, then click and hold to get an option to open them in a new window, you can further zoom in on those threads to really see their profile.

[TagMan]

Another thought: Are you positive your torque wrench is calibrated correctly ?

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Here are some closeup pictures of threads on several different axels that I plan to use in the next '35 rears I'll be rebuilding. I took these shots to show the profile of what I consider to be good threads on some good used axels. If you click on these thumbnail photos to enlarge them, then click and hold to get an option to open them in a new window, you can further zoom in on those threads to really see their profile.

John, Those are some of the finest threads I've seen on axles! I do see some galling on the taper of one, and some nicks on another. These conditions should be addressed before calling it a day: Remove the axle key, file down any nicks, and install the drum with a wheel (for leverage), using grinding compound on the taper. Tighten the axle nut only tight enough to snug it up while allowing the wheel to be turned by hand, thereby lapping the taper in. Remove, clean off the compound, and make the installation with the key. If this is done, there will be no need to retorque later, and your axle will remain tight and secure.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by TagMan

Another thought: Are you positive your torque wrench is calibrated correctly ?

My 14" cheater bar (pipe) is in perfect calibration, thank you.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

My 14" cheater bar (pipe) is in perfect calibration, thank you.

Wow Nicely Played! Always trust the elbow!

Seriously wish I could imprint that on the 30 or so Noobs I hand a Torque Wrench each Semester.

[JSeery]

Think we are getting things a little mixed up here, JM was posting some examples of what he considered good threads would look like.