55 Ford Wagon Timing Question:

[Daves55Sedan]

You are using a '57 Radiator in a '55? Can't tell by the pictures, but since the '57/58 radiator is shorter and wider than the '55, you don't have any cooling on the last couple of vertical cooling tubes in the radiator on each side because they are blocked from getting air by the front wall panels.
Also that '57 radiator doesn't look as deep (wide) as the original '55 radiator was. Same amount of cooling capacity, but the '57 radiator made up in width what the '55 had in height. Could be a substantial loss in cooling capacity with this arrangement. But I understand you had problems with space due to the 302 water pump sticking out so far.
Anyway, something to think about.
BTW, nice looking '55 Mainline 2-dr wagon. If it were me, I would put the stainless belt moulding back on around the base of the top, but from a distance, you probably can't tell.

[KULTULZ]

I don’t know enough about radiators to know what the internal flow is. I’m just familiar with vertical and cross flow. Don’t remember if I ever had a vertical with the hoses on the same side.

Well, here's the thing. FORD used that style RAD on pre-1971 SBF, why I don't know. That's why the WP has a RS radiator bottom tank outlet because of the design of the donor engine time period. Now the coolant is discharged into the RS upper tank and instead of dropping in the tubes evenly across the core to the bottom tank, the coolant is dropped mainly across the RS of the core not allowing full incoming cooling air contact (hang time).

What I want to know it's being a custom radiator and when built, if the customer asked for both inlet/outlet being put on the same side for a 55 FORD, why didn't this ring any bells?

Add this to no shroud, lack of seals/deflectors around the RAD/COND and you start to see the problem(s). Even the bottom splash shields used on the 54/56 are important for air flow.

As for the WP snout size, a short snout style is available but one would have to change all of the drive pulleys ($$$).

One other thing I failed to mention ...

You have to determine that the lower radiator hose is not collapsing at high RPM (suction). The hose has to have that spring in it.

It is a nice looking car ...

[KULTULZ]

Hey Dave?

I'm not too well versed on much before 1957 but didn't the 1955 have a radiator mounting position for either the inline six or the V8, allowing the radiator to be moved forward somewhat? This would negate the long snout WP interference with the fan motor?

[KULTULZ]

I am going to try to post pictures of the installation of the AC, Radiator, and fan.

Hopefully you will be able to see them.

GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Those photos made everything much more clear.

[poolplayer1]

Thanks guys for all your suggestions and or advice and also for the comments on the looks of my wagon. its very much appreciated. I think you all are thinking about all that was used in the 55, which is what this wagon is. However, as I posted along time ago, we took the 272 motor and tranny out and replaced it with this 302 that is in there now along with the C4 tranny. All this came from a 1968 ford custom wagon . That radiator came from the 68ford too. Once I get this problem solved, my next 2 projects are power brakes and power steering. Those are expensive so I have to take one at a time. Which do you guys think I should do first, brakes or steering. Which is the though one to do? I'll leave that one for last. Also, I have been trying to find chrome molding but I can't seem to find any. Do any of you guys know where I can find the correct ones for this wagon. One more thing, I want to replace the brake pedal with a wider one. Would I have to replace the brake pedal arm too. Will a arm and pedal from a 68 mount to the 55? If I can't find anything that will work, I'll just leave it alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?

[KULTULZ]

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All this came from a 1968 ford custom wagon . That radiator came from the 68ford too.

That explains the radiator. I thought (for some reason ... ) ... that it was a custom aftermarket.

ADDENDUM -

Being a 1968 FORD (full size car?) radiator, DAVE's comments come into play. To wit -

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

You are using a '57 Radiator in a '55? Can't tell by the pictures, but since the '57/58 radiator is shorter and wider than the '55, you don't have any cooling on the last couple of vertical cooling tubes in the radiator on each side because they are blocked from getting air by the front wall panels.

Also that '57 radiator doesn't look as deep (wide) as the original '55 radiator was. Same amount of cooling capacity, but the '57 radiator made up in width what the '55 had in height. Could be a substantial loss in cooling capacity with this arrangement. But I understand you had problems with space due to the 302 water pump sticking out so far.

Anyway, something to think about.

Does the rad core fit width within the core support opening?

[KULTULZ]

Is the below trim level you are looking for?

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Hey Dave?

I'm not too well versed on much before 1957 but didn't the 1955 have a radiator mounting position for either the inline six or the V8, allowing the radiator to be moved forward somewhat? This would negate the long snout WP interference with the fan motor?

The side brackets (NOT the U-shaped radiator support bracket), i'm talking the "L" shaped brackets which are soldered on to the top and bottom radiator tanks are different thus:
The Y-block radiators had symmetrical side brackets that mounted the radiator straight up onto the support bracket, but on the I-block 6's, the radiator side brackets slanted forward so that the top radiator tank filled in that space at the center of the front air deflector. The cross-bar at the top of the radiator support for the V8 mounted in front of the top radiator tank. On the I-6, that same cross-bar mounted behind the top radiator tank.
But since the side brackets on the I-6 were slanted, the bottom of the radiator was still close to the engine, while the top of the radiator slanted forward.
It worked for the I-6 due to it's shallow crankshaft damper at the bottom, but I don't know if he could get away with using a '55/56 I-6 radiator using a 302 V8.
Another thing is the I-6 radiator tanks had smaller hose connections, but one could burn the tanks off a V8 radiator and solder them on an I-6 radiator.
Top hose connection is far right and bottom hose connection is far left on V-8 tanks. The I-6 connections are the opposite of the V8, and the top tank connection is slid closer to the center of the top tank.
He'd need to determine if the hose sizes and locations would work out with the 302 water pump.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Is the below trim level you are looking for

Nope, that is a Ranch wagon. They had the same trim package as a Customline. He has a Mainline wagon (or it appears to be, unless he stripped all the trim off).
ALL '55 car models had the belt moulding around the base of the top, even the Mainline models. However the Mainlines were the only ones that did NOT have upper windshield and rear window trim. The bare rubber gasket was exposed on these. None of the Mainlines in '55 had any body side trim at all.
They changed that philosophy somewhat in '56.

[Daves55Sedan]

Excuse me for not realizing he had a '68 radiator folks, but the same philosophy applies to what I wrote earlier about the loss in tube height and blocked tubing at the sides.
'56 was the last year for the tall radiators, they actually used the same radiator cores in the trucks, but with different side brackets.
My worry, if I had done this, is that unless you cut out portions of the front wall plates to allow the ends of the shorter, wider radiator, those end rows of tubing on both sides are not being cooled at all. The modification to fix that would need to include the radiator support bracket for the '68 radiator and throw out the old '55 radiator support U-shaped bracket. You'd have to drill new holes in the front wall panels to mount the panels to the '68 support bracket.

[KULTULZ]

... that is a Ranch wagon. They had the same trim package as a Customline. He has a Mainline wagon (or it appears to be, unless he stripped all the trim off).

That was what I was asking, how he wants it trimmed. If stock, I would need the BODY CODE.

Thanks about the RAD info. So the difference is how the support brackets are attached to the core (either six or eight) and not special brackets to allow a more forward mounting to the core support?

[KULTULZ]

Now that we know the radiator is from a 68 donor, along with the complete FEAD (Front End Accessory Drive) and WP style, it comes down to the RAD fitting properly within the core support, the fan/shroud style and if the take-out RAD was tanked, pressure tested and flow tested.

Another factor might be the core size (height) as opposed to the stock 55 tall radiator.

[KULTULZ]

Once I get this problem solved, my next 2 projects are power brakes and power steering. Those are expensive so I have to take one at a time. Which do you guys think I should do first, brakes or steering.

Here is a referring thread to a FRONT DISC CONVERSION -

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331827

As for the pedal, I would wait until you decide how you want to go about the brake conversion.

[5851a]

They switched to the more common lower drivers side and upper passenger side in 69 for small blocks. Question to OP, is the sensor in the Tstat housing the fan trigger or for gauge? Gauge should be in intake. As Miker said you need to seal the radiator to the front opening, letting no air bypass.

[poolplayer1]

Thanks Guys, you all are great in discussing this heat problem. Daves55sedan, man, you really know your radiators, very talented person. Not only with radiators but other parts of the 55/56 fords. Of course we are not going to leave out Kultulz and all the other very smart mechanics in this forum. Kultulz, Yes that is the trim that I am looking for to put on my wagon. If you know of a place that I can get it from, please let me know. I had to make changes to the body side panels where the radiator side flanges bolt to in order to be able to move the Rad. forward to make room for the electric fan. The radiator core is free from any blockage from the side mounting panels. It fits right between the side panels. The only thing in front of the radiator is the AC condensor.
Oh, by the way. When talking about whether the condensor is in front or behind the radiator, Is the front of the Rad.being facing the street or looking at it from inside the cab. Sorry for the stupid question but it would be good for me to know. Also, the thermostatic switch that you see is for controlling the start cycle of the fan. The one for the temp. gauge is at the intake. I drove it around over the weekend and the temp. went up to 215 degrees. Better than the last time which went up to 225. I'm thinking about bringing the timing down to 6 BTDC to see if that makes any changes to the coolant temp. Do you thats a good idea? Right now its at 12 BTDC. Let me know what you think. Thanks for the link on the brake conversion Kultulz.

[KULTULZ]

When talking about whether the condensor is in front or behind the radiator, Is the front of the Rad.being facing the street or looking at it from inside the cab. Sorry for the stupid question but it would be good for me to know.

There is no stupid question, other than my asking my LITTLE THUMBSCREW to marry me.

The condenser is mounted outwards of the RAD towards the grille,

[KULTULZ]

Can you post the MANUFACTURER and KIT NO of the electric fan kit?

[miker98038]

In general retarding the timing will make an engine run hotter not cooler. But from 12 to 6 I doubt you’ll see much difference. Probably see it more in the change in total advance running about 2-3000 rpm. Less power. 68 was the beginning of more stringent emission controls, but I don’t know what they did to a sbf. Or if any of that is left on your engine.

Brakes and steering. Well set up drums are ok, but getting good linings is a problem. High speed stops will almost certainly improve with a proper well engineered front disc. A bad job won’t be better except possibly for fade. But since power steering is more of a low speed item (again, good parts and proper alignment) highway steering should be ok. Given you can work at it in a parking lot, but when you have to stop at highway speeds you have to STOP. So I’d do the brakes first.

Try getting the airflow items around the radiator. You can do that with cardboard and duct tape for test purposes. It sounds to me like you’re really close to being ok. Maybe the little tweaks will solve it.

[poolplayer1]

Ok guys, I will see what else I can do to the Rad. to get more air flow to it. The electric fan is from summit racing. That fan really Sucks, ( No Pun Intended) .Yes, it sucks all that hot air from the Rad. Well, most of it. I am going to post a pix of it so you guys can see it. Thanks as usuall.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Nope, that is a Ranch wagon. They had the same trim package as a Customline. He has a Mainline wagon (or it appears to be, unless he stripped all the trim off).
ALL '55 car models had the belt moulding around the base of the top, even the Mainline models. However the Mainlines were the only ones that did NOT have upper windshield and rear window trim. The bare rubber gasket was exposed on these. None of the Mainlines in '55 had any body side trim at all.
They changed that philosophy somewhat in '56.

There were two Ranch Wagons offered in '55 and '56.
The base Mainline version without side trim and no trim around the front and back windows. and the Customline version with trim
and upgraded interior.
Neither one had a badge that said Customline or Mainline, but they both had a fender badge that said Ranch Wagon.
Body code for the Mainline version was 59A. The Customline was 59B.
I own a '55 59A.

Sal