40 transmission problem

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

original trans was rebuilt about a 1000 miles ago by the previous owner, stock, driven on a few local tours, driven by a "old car guy" not abused at all. nothing external problems, full of unknown doping. no other failure occurred. only previous problem was an out of adjustment shift rod, corrected a long time ago.

I feel the need to ask this question.......I'm wondering if you know/knew the previous owner who rebuilt this transmission ~ 1000 miles ago, well enough to judge his level of skill sets, mechanical abilities, and the knowledge required to rebuild one of these early Ford transmissions?

As other folks have already mentioned, this failure seems to be nearly impossible to happen, UNLESS, parts were not assembled/installed correctly or maybe left out completely, incorrect parts were installed, or something broke and dropped out of place. Any or all of these things mentioned could have allowed parts to move far enough out of possition allowing those rectangular synchro inserts to move out of place and cause the type of damage shown in your pictures.

[alanwoodieman]

took the trans the rest of the way apart, all the correct pieces are present. The cluster gear and 1st and reverse slider gears are really beat up, chipped teeth some teeth almost worn to a point. This trans led a hard life for a long time. Took second "rebuilt" trans apart, miss matched cluster (28 tooth) and input shaft (15 teeth), cluster gear looks very good. glad he did not try to run it. cluster gear was very tight, no clearance at all, had a hard time getting it out. Took everything to the vat and let them soak for awhile, will take some pictures and post. right now I would believe the problem was a lead footed driver!!

[alanwoodieman]

JM-- I have no knowledge of the gentleman in Fla. who restored the car. I am now pretty sure it was just abuse long before he even worked on it.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

JM-- I have no knowledge of the gentleman in Fla. who restored the car. I am now pretty sure it was just abuse long before he even worked on it.

Alan, it's my best guess that he and the quality (or lack there of) of his rebuild on this transmission are directly related to the main reason or reasons why this transmission has failed.

The first picture is not the best example for this purpose, but if we could have seen some pictures of this failed transmission, done like these pictures, it might have been possible to determine what lead to the failure of your friends transmission.

The first picture was taken of a 40 to 48 side load transmission that we were thinking about buying as a gear donner to use in an earlier top loader case. The second and third pictures were very nice gears that I removed from another side loader transmission, to use in an early pn 48-xxxxx top load case. Last picture was the rebuilt top loader case, rebuilt with 46-48 gears, all ready to be installed in a 36 Ford touring sedan.

[alanwoodieman]

pictures would look like any other trans, except for the pictures I already posted of the badly damaged syncro ring and the blocker. If I had a guess, I would say somehow the syncro hub moved and allowed the shift ring to get off the syncro blockers/balls/springs
Thanks to all for the suggestions and help.

[JM 35 Sedan]

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Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

pictures would look like any other trans, except for the pictures I already posted of the badly damaged syncro ring and the blocker. If I had a guess, I would say somehow the syncro hub moved and allowed the shift ring to get off the syncro blockers/balls/springs
Thanks to all for the suggestions and help.

What I was implying, by showing some of my pictures, would have been a picture that might have been taken showing what that transmissions internal gearing looked like just as you removed the side shift cover, especially in the hub, sliding collar, syncro areas, and how those inserts actually looked up over top of the syncro rings. Also, by showing the internals after the cover was removed, and a shot of all the individual parts, we may have noticed a part that was missing from the group or some relative damage to other parts. I guess "with three other sets of hands in the disassembly of the trans" no one was thinking quick enough to take pictures that might have helped you and others being asked to help understand this later, and determine what might have actually happened to cause this failure.

[alanwoodieman]

when I took the trans fully apart and washed up these parts it became apparent why the trans failed--should have failed earlier!!, some one removed the ring spacer on the main shaft and substituted a long needle bearing where a short one should have been, the syncro hub had been damaged on the thrust face and had ruined the brass spacer the main shaft lock pin had been cut off--all of this resulted in loose condition of the syncro hub which allowed the shift, 2nd/3rd ring to move off the balls/springs and blockers which allowed these blockers to get locked up on top the syncro brass rings

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

when I took the trans fully apart and washed up these parts it became apparent why the trans failed--should have failed earlier!!, some one removed the ring spacer on the main shaft and substituted a long needle bearing where a short one should have been, the syncro hub had been damaged on the thrust face and had ruined the brass spacer the main shaft lock pin had been cut off--all of this resulted in loose condition of the syncro hub which allowed the shift, 2nd/3rd ring to move off the balls/springs and blockers which allowed these blockers to get locked up on top the syncro brass rings

Okay Alan, that sounds like a good analysis and final conclusion of what happened and why it failed.

We may need to find the guy who did this rebuild, and the spare transmission that came with this car, make him sit in the corner of his garage/repair shop with a pointed dunce cap on for the next week, plus confiscate all his tools on the way out....until he graduates with honors from the Early Ford Transmission Rebuilding School

Never mind, we just found him.....

[sidevalve8ba]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Okay Alan, that sounds like a good analysis and final conclusion of what happened and why it failed.

We may need to find the guy who did this rebuild, and the spare transmission that came with this car, make him sit in the corner of his garage/repair shop with a pointed dunce cap on for the next week, plus confiscate all his tools on the way out....until he graduates with honors from the Early Ford Transmission Rebuilding School

I think he could stand to read Mac Van Pelt's book.

[alanwoodieman]

John that would be too easy on him, we should just relegate him to working on some sort of foreighn car, like a toyoto!!